Chasing the Next Thing With Casey Cavell

Josh (00:00:02) - Got to hit the button, I guess. Casey, welcome to Uncensored advice for men and fellas out there. Let me set the stage for who this guy is known in probably five years. He is a serial entrepreneur. He builds businesses. He's really good at scaling things, got a sharp brain. But more importantly, he is about to add some new additions to his family. So, Casey, welcome to the show. This is cool to have you on this side of the microphone.

Casey (00:00:32) - Yeah, good to be here. I think when we originally met each other was, I guess, newly married. We hung out in Florida for a few hours and shared a couple good meals together. And we're both entrepreneurial, we're both dads, we're both husbands, and we just kind of bonded. And my life's different now than it used to be, but I'm excited for that and excited to be a guest here today.

Josh (00:00:51) - Yeah, man. So you and I connecting, I think we originally connected via LinkedIn, which the power of a social channel for for like minded people is super powerful if done the right way.

Josh (00:01:03) - You and I connected via conversations about God and business and those are two things that you are really excited about and passionate about. And so kind of give a framework of, of what you do for work.

Casey (00:01:19) - Yeah, for work. So I've kind of been a problem solver. I've always gone into businesses that were already running and existing and figure out a way to make those things better. So got my start in the apartment complex and self storage industry where I would go find other businesses that were already running self storage complexes were one of the things that I originally got into and I kept going into these things and saying, Hey, if they did this, then this would happen. Or if they fix that problem, then this would grow the top line or there's a better way to manage these customers or there's a better way to build a brand around what they're trying to do. So I've always been a guy that goes into businesses. Typically I would go and buy them, you know, double it, triple it, you know, five exit over a year or two period and then sell it.

Casey (00:02:03) - And I've always been kind of like a starter. I like to start things, build things and then scale and exit. And I've done that, you know, a dozen or so different times and different industries. And now I kind of help other people do the exact same thing. So I go into other people's businesses that are already running. They have something they know it could be better, they know it could be bigger. The owner of the company is kind of being ran by their business maybe, and they want to get their time back. They want to build the business, they want to scale a business, but they also don't want their business to run their life because think money is important. It can do a lot of really cool things. But you know, ultimately peace is where it's at. So I help business owners have peace and get peace. And a lot of the times it's putting the right people around them that allows them not to run their business but own their business.

Josh (00:02:44) - Yeah. So in this you were also were in sports, right? Kind of give us an idea of your background in sports.

Josh (00:02:52) - Yeah.

Casey (00:02:53) - So I was a college athlete, small college baseball. Right? I worked hard. I didn't wasn't as physically gifted as probably a lot of my buddies that played professional baseball. But I took it to the level that I could. And in everything, whether it was baseball or his business, I always had a plan. I always surrounded myself with a team. So played small college baseball, played two years there, got my real estate license, you know, after college and just jumped into the business world and then had some successes in the self storage industry, like I mentioned. And then came to a point in my late 20s where I was like, All right, what would I do now? Knowing that money wasn't really something I had to pursue because I had some successful exits in business that I couldn't fail. And it was something around the game of baseball. So I ended up starting five baseball and softball academies in the Atlanta area. It was at the time a very small franchise. And I love franchises because if you're not entrepreneurial like you can take an already proven system and just implement that and build yourself a really impactful business.

Casey (00:03:52) - And it was a franchise, but I was entrepreneurial and thankfully they were early on in their franchise, so I was able to help them and the franchise org grow and build and scale and then they were great with me and built five academies. And not only were we financially profitable, but we impacted thousands of of ballplayers on a on a weekly basis. And we were able to employ former professional baseball players and give them opportunities to create a career outside of baseball. And it was a ton of fun.

Josh (00:04:19) - Yeah. So you've done this, you've gotten into business and even at an early age, you know, got out of playing for college, got real estate license, went to bat and started hitting home runs right off the bat. Right in your in your career, like my story is almost like the exact opposite, right? Like I struggled figuring out what to do in college. I switched around a thousand times. I came out getting hit by the ball instead of hitting home runs. Sure. Did you always know that this was your sweet spot in life in terms of taking something that's already moving? Right? You're not starting anything from scratch.

Josh (00:04:57) - You're getting stuff that's already moving and making it better. Did you always know that that was your sweet spot? Bot.

Casey (00:05:03) - I don't know. I probably just got lucky early on just because I got into the right business at the right time. But I got lucky because I was surrounding myself with really good people. And, you know, I asked those people who are normally paid consultants, like, what would you do if you were me kind of thing? Because I was trying to learn from people that were 20, 30 years my senior. So did I know that was my thing? I don't know. I think you just have to do things and then figure out what your thing and whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, who knows? You've gone through a lot of things in your life and you've learned a lot of things. And then eventually you do have to figure out what is your niche like, what are you great at doing, what do you enjoy doing and what makes money? And I find once you know that for you as a person and professional, then you can really pursue something.

Casey (00:05:44) - But you got to try a lot of things before you figure out what is that kind of thing that you should be doing.

Josh (00:05:49) - Yeah, and you mentioned those again. Why don't you repeat those for us guys who are taking notes.

Casey (00:05:54) - Which things?

Josh (00:05:55) - You said, what you're good at. Yeah.

Casey (00:05:58) - So yeah, it talks about it in the book. Good to great. It's chapter five hedgehog concept and I think we've had conversations around this, Josh, multiple times because you're an entrepreneur, you're a visionary and you do a lot of things, but it's like, what's the one thing you know, Orville Redenbacher, you know, everybody knows him for what? Popcorn? That's what he does. He does popcorn. Now, when Orville was super successful, other opportunities came his way where there was real estate opportunities or theme parks. Like, who knows, like, Hey, you're good at popcorn. Why don't you create a popcorn based theme park? All right. Well, it seems exciting because I think a lot of people that are successful think they can be successful in multiple other things.

Casey (00:06:36) - But what you have to figure out is, you know, what can you be the best at? You know, there's only so many Deion Sanders out there. Right? He's kind of hot right now. And he was a baseball player, all star, you know, NFL Pro Bowler. There's only so many of those guys. I think there's only a handful that can do it. And then inside of football or inside of baseball, you really have to pick your position. So chapter five, Hedgehog concept, good. A great what are you great at? Meaning what can you be the best in the world at? Because if you can't be the best in the world at it, your competition, they'll beat you. What do you love doing? If you don't love doing, you'll eventually quit or give up or just hate your life. And then also what makes money? Because if it can't make money, then those that you're supporting will hate you, right? Because at the end of the day, you could be happy and be great at it.

Casey (00:07:24) - But if it's not making any money, you got to support a family. It doesn't really work out well.

Josh (00:07:28) - Yeah. So do all of those three need to be in place to thrive? Can you just pick two out of the three and have an okay life? Like what are your thoughts on that?

Casey (00:07:39) - I don't know. I mean, if you think about it, if you can't be great at it, you're probably not going to ultimately be able to beat the competition. So that's going to be a miserable way to live where you're not, you know, the best in your area, but maybe some people are okay being I'm the third best real estate agent, real estate agent or I'm the third, I'm not, but maybe some people are. But you're probably not an entrepreneur if you are right, Um, can you do it? And it makes money and you're great at it, but you don't love it? I don't know. You're probably going to hate your life. You're probably going to be miserable if you love it, right? And it makes money.

Casey (00:08:15) - You probably have to be great at it. So it's probably the intersection of those three circles.

Josh (00:08:19) - Yeah. So you kind of got that early on for, you know, after interviewing like 1500 people, you know, throughout the, the different podcast shows that I've been doing over the years, one of the things that I hit is when someone has made it to the top multiple times, built something successful, exit extra X dollars in their bank account, right? Like when you have a year's worth of savings where you don't have to show up for work, the only thing that makes you show up to work is some type of mission or purpose, right? So I've had guys who've hit big and then, man, they really struggled to find that hedgehog principle for their life. So what about you, man? You hit it big, came back, did it again, hit it big, came back to it. And you keep on doing this and now you're doing it for other people. Like, how did you know to dive back in and was there ever a valley where you're like, I don't know what to do with my life?

Casey (00:09:16) - Yeah, there was.

Casey (00:09:17) - And I think after I exited those baseball academies, I had to realize, okay, what am I going to do now? Because it was a lot of fun. It was a fun business and I got to work with a lot of my friends and I was a little bit down and lonely after that because I didn't go to work every day. And I think a lot of people business is their life or their identity. And, you know, it's it's what you do. It's not who you are. But I think just for a lot of us, let's be honest, it is who we are. Like, it just is. That's why. Professional sports coaches, They don't quit. They they might and take a year off, but then they go right back into it. It's not because they need the money, it's because there's nothing else to do that's going to give them that rush. So I think men in general, you got to figure out like what gives you a rush, what gets you excited? And I think men in general, they turn to a lot of things that aren't good.

Casey (00:10:01) - We know what those things are, right? I've been in them, whether it's a substance of some sort, alcohol or drugs, whether it's a substance or a person like a woman. Right. Or that's maybe your wife or maybe not your wife or whoever. Like there's those things that make you feel loved and worthy and secure and celebrated and, you know, you don't want to go to work to get those things because if you're going to work to feel loved and worthy and secure and you're having a bad workday or business isn't performing well, like you're going to be down in the dumps. So one, I think you have to be really secure in who you are. And then outside of that, then it's what if God puts you on this earth to do? What problem did he call you to solve? Because I think we're all here to solve a problem. What is that? Could be a small problem. Could be a big problem. Could be just be a really good neighbor to your next door neighbor.

Casey (00:10:51) - It could be, Hey, I want you to go and build an entire complex, right? That is, you know, housing the homeless. Who knows what it is. But I think it's just surrounding yourself with the right people, sharing openly and honestly to those that you're working with, like how you're actually doing. And you're right. I mean, I think there's points in everybody's life where you're questioning, and I did two like, Why am I doing what I'm doing? Is this supposed to be what I'm doing? But at the end of the day, like the best days that I have, I'm like looking back at what made that a great day and the days that I don't like doing. I look at where do I spend my time today? And usually it's about encouraging, inspiring other people. And when I'm able to spend the majority of my time doing that, I'm in a good spot.

Josh (00:11:34) - What about the things that suck life from you? Right in the quadrants. Good to great and buy back time.

Josh (00:11:42) - Tim Ferriss wrote in Four Hour Workweek. He goes, What do you love doing? What makes you money? What are you best you? Right? So they create these quadrants and there's things in life that we have to show up as business owners sometimes to do, or at least to get started. We're not good at and it doesn't make us money. Most of the time it's administrative paperwork. Fill in the blank. What about you? What are the things that you hate to do?

Casey (00:12:04) - Yeah, management of people long term. There's a difference between leadership and management, and it's a big difference. And you got to figure it out because a lot of great leaders aren't great managers. So as a entrepreneur, I was a great leader setting a really cool, compelling vision, you know, giving people tools and resources they need to be successful, but following up and making sure stuff's getting done and, you know, the day in, day out systems and processes and organization, I'm great at that to start.

Casey (00:12:33) - And a lot of businesses now, they bring me in for that stuff for a period of time. But I'm a fixer. Once it's fixed, I have to leave and go do something else. Yeah, so that's where a lot of owners bring me in for a period of time. I fix it and then I move on. So it's the ongoing thing of doing the same thing 10,000 times versus doing 10,000 different things one time. I would most likely rather do 10,000 different things one time, and I think that's where a lot of business owners get in trouble because they're that. But what they really need is the person that's going to do the same thing over and over again. And every time I see a failed businesses because they don't have the person that's going in there and doing the day in, day out stuff because the owner doesn't want to do it. But they failed to put somebody else in place to do it for sure.

Josh (00:13:17) - I was just having this conversation with my pastor over dinner last night and we were talking about this in particular, and I said the problem that I had as becoming a leader is knowing the difference between leader and manager.

Josh (00:13:30) - Big difference. And then and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And then as as just a normal human being, I think that everybody thinks like me. So when I look at all the tasks that need to be done, I go, nobody wants to do this crap. I'll just knock it out myself. I'm not going to delegate it out that's below them or this or that. So what happens is I'm doing things. That other people love to do. There's people out there who love checklists. Task lists, systems, processes the same thing every day. And it blows my mind because they're very different than me. What are your thoughts? Leaders, managers? And then the the administrative or the the high seas of the world, Right?

Casey (00:14:13) - Yeah. So let's talk about it. So leadership. So if you look at and this comes out of a book called How to Be a Great Boss, they talk about the five leadership practices, number ones. You got to give clear direction, a compelling vision.

Casey (00:14:27) - The next one is giving people the tools and resources they need to be successful training, resources, people, technology, all of that kind of stuff, and then let go and let them do their thing. The next thing is just like, just be a good person, right? Like act with a greater good in mind for the company and the people. Put your interests behind the interests of others and then take a break. Like chill out, relax, take some time off. Don't work 70 hour weeks once a quarter, take a think day and just get out of the office. So like, that's being a great leader. And then there's being a great manager, which is all about keeping expectations really clear, communicating really well and consistently, making sure they know what's on my mind. I know what's on their mind. We're meeting consistently with the team. We're talking about the issues that we might not want to talk about, but we have to talk about. And then we're following up to make sure the stuff we talk about actually gets done.

Casey (00:15:18) - You're meeting with the team maybe once a quarter individually and giving good feedback and reviews and all of that and then rewarding and recognizing people when they do a really great job. So those are two different types of things. Sometimes you can be a great leader and manager. Oftentimes you kind of have to be depending on your role. But sometimes I do see leaders that are in management positions that they need to get themselves out of, and a lot of that times that's a business owner or a founder.

Josh (00:15:43) - Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. Like the, the, the many hats that someone wears to get a business from zero to something, right. To get that initial momentum. There's tons of energy that is spent there and we wear different hats to get it there. And then as a founder, one of the hardest thing I find is releasing that control to different people. And in the book Buy Back Time by Dan Martell up there, he says 80% done is awesome, right? So if someone could do 80% even, it's awesome.

Josh (00:16:21) - But I'm a control freak, even though when I hold on to something, it falls apart, right? Yeah. That's the the leadership and the founder dilemma. The second part of it is this this idea that there are many you know, the Bible would say there's many parts of the body. Right. And each body has a different component in the skill set and such like that. There are people out there who love doing the other side of the job, the administrative. They don't care about being on camera in front of people or with people, period. They like numbers and data and like how do I know what I should be building other people for and allowing other people to thrive in those areas and get that crap off my plate, right that I'm not gifted in and that I hate doing. Um.

Casey (00:17:08) - Well, first it's figuring out what those things are. I think a lot of time, you know, I go into a company and they're like, All right, these are all my problems and these are all my people.

Casey (00:17:15) - And I first say, All right, let's get rid of the problems first. Let's not even think about the people. Let's build the right structure for your team. What are all the positions that you need to have? Because I think a lot of people, they have these job roles and these titles and these positions and companies that they just have because they had a person that's good at that and they're like, Oh, okay, well they can do this thing. And then all of a sudden they have a job title. So you've heard of Prado's principle, right? The 2080 approach, 20% of your people produce 80% of your result. So unfortunately, 80% of your people like they don't really do a whole lot, right? Like they're just there. So the first thing you have to do is figure out what actually needs to be done, what's important to the business, to make sure that long term vision becomes reality. Because I think if you do that, you can like simplify your organization, right? You can get the people that are really great, more motivated and more focused on what matters and the people that are just there because they're there, like maybe free them up to do something else that might be better.

Casey (00:18:10) - So I just think first, define everything that needs to be done. Build out your team and decide the positions and then you can start putting people in these boxes that need to be there. And I think you'll be surprised what you're able to accomplish.

Josh (00:18:23) - Yeah. All right. So you exited your, uh, the the baseball and softball training camps, and you said you went through a little bit of a lull, right? Like, you're like, Oh, man. Trying to find my next thing, my next purpose, my next mission. And. And you found it, right? With coaching and investing and diving back into businesses. But a lot of times that happens in a investor serial entrepreneurs world. And because of that, they hold on to a business too long. Right. So you exited. You're out, buddy. You don't get you know, you don't have a key or a code anymore where you can walk through those doors and just do whatever the heck you want. Yeah, you've moved on.

Josh (00:19:03) - They've moved on. I think a lot of people hold on to a business and we're seeing that with like the baby boomer generation, the seller tsunami. Right? We talk about it. Silver tsunami seller, tsunami. And I know this is a show just called Uncensored Advice for Men. But there's a time. When you could let go. On purpose rather than, Hey, I die or it's ripped out from underneath me or I can no longer perform. But how do you know? Like when it does become a part of your identity, how to let go and when to let go?

Casey (00:19:31) - Yeah. I mean, I think you first have to figure out what do you want out of life? Like, what do you want life to look like, What's important? And then restructure your business and your days around that, you know, four hour workweek. I read that thing a long time ago. I don't think anybody would actually even want to work four hours a week like that. If you're an entrepreneur, you're like, that would drive you nuts just to work for hours.

Casey (00:19:53) - You couldn't do it right. Hey, let's go play 36 holes of golf. I don't. I get bored unless I'm playing with my buddies after nine holes of golf because I'm not really building anything. Now, if we're out there playing for something or have a little bit of, you know, something on the line, like, I'll do it. But like, I love building things and building people. So I think it's just like figuring out if you own a business, what do you want your life to be like and how do you build a business to serve that life? And I think a lot of times you hang on too much because you don't know what else you would do with your time. You got to figure out where else would you spend your time, what else would you do? And then inside of the business, what do you want to spend your time doing? Um, because you have to build a business that doesn't rely on you, whether you exit today or you exit five years from now, that should be your number one goal is even give yourself the ability to exit.

Casey (00:20:43) - Because if the business is relying on you, you don't really own a business, it just runs you and you're just an employee in the organization. So first that needs to happen is make sure the business doesn't actually need you and you actually own it. Don't run it. And then after that, it'll give you some freedom to think through, well, what do you want to do? And if you did sell, what would you do? And I'm a big believer that and how I got into coaching consulting is I already solved a problem that was really hard finding a business, building a business and getting myself out of the day to day. And I know how stressful and how big of a struggle it was to do that. And on the outside, everybody's like, You got it going on, on the inside. I'm like, Can I do this another day? Can I do this another day? Because it's hard. And then I figured out a way to surround myself with the right people where I got myself out of the grind and I got myself building a business that truly, you know, I owned rather than ran.

Casey (00:21:34) - And for me, I'm like, what better thing to do than go help somebody else that's in that pit, that's in that that time period in their life where they're stressed out, they're maxed out. I think all guys, you're either in it right now, right? You're like in the fight for your life, for your family, whatever that looks like for your business, or you've already like gotten out of that period of time and you figured it out. And I think the people that are in the fight like they're in it, they need to ask other people that are out of it and the people that are out of it need to seek out people that are in it. And I don't think there's anything better than you can do than help other people solve problems that you already know how to solve. And I shouldn't say help them solve problems, but empower and encourage others to solve problems because nobody got me out of it. They just gave me the resources I needed. And they told me, You got it.

Casey (00:22:22) - You can do it. You can figure this out. What about this? What about this? So I think that's just it. It's just find a problem you want to solve. And if you can help other people solve it, it makes her life better. Like you'll have plenty of opportunities and you'll get more joy out of your life than anything else.

Josh (00:22:37) - You said earlier. You got to be secure in who you are, right? So this your skill sets your your talents and you've got to be secure in that. You also have to be secure in your weaknesses, right? Like I've got a few really strong skill sets, right? Like there's nobody better in the universe at Fill in the Blank. Right? But like, I have a huge list, massive list of the things that I'm not good at. I've got to be just as good as, yeah, I'm humble and, you know, I'm trying to be humble. Swag. My buddy Tim says, you know, I'm really good at these things, but I'm also really bad at these things and I've got to be okay with both of those things.

Josh (00:23:14) - So I think, yes, be secure with who you are and how God wired us. But the next thing you said is like once you once you let go, you got to do something else. And I think that's a fear that guys like me have of letting go because this what am I going to do with my time when I start delegating things out and now I have free time on my calendar for the first time, I've got to level up. And if you're insecure like me, you go, What? What should I be doing? At least right here, I've got control of this thing. I could crank a widget and a Gidget and I can make a dollar, but now that that's a machine running. So I think problem solvers will go create a problem to fix it. Right. But like, this is forcing us to like, I have to level up and add more value to the world. That's scary.

Casey (00:24:09) - It's extremely scary because if you're able to build a business that doesn't need you.

Casey (00:24:14) - You're worthless. And then if you're worthless, what do you do? You go and create more problems on purpose, even though you're not doing it. So you have something to solve that makes you worthy because you just solved a problem that you created because you feel deep down inside you're not adequate. And I don't know if anybody understood what I just said, but like, that was that was deep, that if you're able to build a business that doesn't need you anymore, then like you deep down inside might feel not needed, not wanted. Like, there's no point to Casey even being here. And that's why if you look at suicide rates these days, a lot of it is people in their 60s and 70s after they retire.

Josh (00:24:59) - Yeah.

Casey (00:25:01) - If you look at.

Josh (00:25:01) - It, a part of what they do and part of their identity was wrapped in what they do.

Casey (00:25:06) - That's it. Military athletes, the suicide and divorce rates are out. Out of the world because they in the military, you have a team, you have a purpose.

Casey (00:25:18) - You have a goal when these dudes come back. They don't have a team. Yeah, there is no purpose and there is no goal. Even if they just get guaranteed money like it's the most miserable thing I've ever witnessed. And I have friends that have gone through it. Professional athletes. It's the same thing. I've mentored dozens of professional athletes and they're like, Well, what do I do now? I have $25 million in the bank and I'm more miserable than I ever had. I'm like, How is that even possible?

Josh (00:25:44) - How is that possible? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk about that, because I think everybody's chasing this carrot, right? Us guys, the rat race. And we've read Robert Kiyosaki book and we're like, Man, as soon as my passive income exceeds my active income, I'm free. Financial freedom and passive income. If you look if you look on LinkedIn and you scroll for two seconds, you're going to see passive income, passive income, you know, like escape the rat race, financial freedom.

Josh (00:26:10) - But then they get it. So they've been chasing their whole life. They'll sacrifice their friends or family, their own health, their life, their beliefs, and then they get it. And I got 25 million bucks in the bank, and I'm miserable. How does that freakin happen? Tell us, Casey.

Casey (00:26:27) - I mean. I think they're just putting their hope and trust in something that's not ultimately going to fill fulfill the thing that they ultimately need. Because there's four things we all need in life spells out laws so you can remember it. Love, acceptance, worth and security. A lot of people seek love, acceptance, warmth and security and a spouse, a job, a number in their bank account. But what happens when your spouse isn't loving you like you think they should? What happens when that bank account does go down and then there's fear that it's going to go down more because there's going to be a giant recession and then you rear in somebody and you think they're going to sue you for $10 million and take off like a bank account is not going to provide a lot of these things.

Casey (00:27:18) - A spouse is not going to provide these things. That new house is not going to provide these things. And that's why when you look at Hollywood, they all have that stuff, but they're going more and more and more. Right. And that was kind of my story. I tried to find that stuff. I tried to find it in business, and then I tried to find it in relationships and it just never fulfilled it. And that's where my faith comes in, is, you know, I'm a believer in Jesus, and he writes in the Book of John, Right, which is in the New Testament. It's kind of the story of Jesus's life by John's account. It talks about Jesus and who he is. And when I was feeling empty because I already caught the wind. Right. And they always talk about it like chasing the wind. I caught it, but then it's like it took off again. And then when I read the book of John, I said, Hey, this is kind of makes sense.

Casey (00:28:05) - They call it Living Water. They say that you're always thirsty if you're if you're drinking out of the well of this world, you're always thirsty. This world can never quench your thirst. But Jesus says he brings the living water. And when I first heard this and somebody told me this, I'm like, Dude, stop. Like, just stop. Because I went to a friend of mine, I'm 26 years old, and I said, Tom, I got all this money. I got this stuff. My girlfriend broke up with me a couple of weeks earlier. So now I thought that was going to be good because she was a train wreck and I guess I was probably a train wreck to looking back at it. And I'm like, All right, now I'm free of that problem. Now I have all this money. And then a few weeks went by and I still wasn't good. And he told me, I asked him, I go, What do I do to fix it? Because I'm a fixer.

Casey (00:28:53) - Men are fixers. We like fixing things. But you can't fix yourself. You can't fix the human condition. And that's when I was like, wait a minute. If there is a different way than self-help because I believe in self-help, but I believe he can only get you so far, then I need to at least study it. And that's when I went on my spiritual journey and walk and found out that there was something above and beyond just the things that this world could promise.

Josh (00:29:15) - Yeah. Yeah. So true. And here's what I've experienced, is when you have money in the bank, right? And you and you, it gives you for the first time you have the ability to. To pause and look around. That's when the crazy noise happens, right? When you're hustling and you're working and you're around people and you're making money and it's tough and you're like, I can't wait to get out of this, to retire, to, you know, to exit my business or to close this one deal.

Josh (00:29:41) - Just one more deal. And then you have money in the bank and you've got time. And you think that that's Paradise and it lasts about two weeks. Yeah. That's when the noise hits. That money's going to disappear. Something's going to happen. It's going to go away. You're losing money. You're not making, you know, like. Like. Is that. Is that your experience or what happened with you?

Casey (00:30:07) - My lasted maybe 24 hours, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Josh (00:30:12) - Yeah.

Casey (00:30:13) - So because. Yeah, because I always had to be getting something now, getting down deeper into my story, you know, I still had to get over the fact that Casey believes something about himself, that if I kept believing that no matter what I accomplished, I still wasn't going to be at peace. And that was deep down inside. I believe that Casey was a piece of shit. And. Wait a minute. Why would Casey think he's a piece of shit? He's accomplished this and he's done this, and he has this and he's done this.

Casey (00:30:48) - And I went through years of counseling. Josh And this was after I became a Christian, because just because you become a Christian doesn't mean you still don't think things about yourself. Yeah. And we're some of the most messed up people because I didn't really know how bad I was doing. And I had this belief in me that I was this pos from messages that were sent to me from middle school and elementary school teachers, from friends, from messages that were directed at my dad. Right. From things that I heard my mom say about my dad, from, you know, what my brother said or whatever. And I had this deep down feeling, Josh, that I wasn't good enough. So what did I do? Everything I did my entire life, I tried to do it to my best ability, meaning I had to be the best at it. Or I was what, a pos. So whatever it is I did, I mean, I became a professional poker player when I was 20 years old and played in the World Series of Poker Main event.

Casey (00:31:44) - I was the youngest player ever to do it because when I saw it on TV, when my buddies and I was playing nickel and dime poker with them, the next day, I said, How do I become the best that's ever done it? And I went and I did. I came pretty close, right? But then it was empty. I'm in Las Vegas. I'm sitting at the world's one of the world's nicest hotels with the best poker player in the world. Phil Hellmuth is his name. You can Google him. And I'm sitting there and I'm talking to him about this stuff the next day. I play in the World Series of Poker Main event. I'm not even remembering like, Well, what's next? What's next? And then I turn that into business and I turn that into another business. And no matter what it is I did, I could never be great to outrun what I fully believed about myself. And I think a lot of dudes listen to this. Like, what do you really believe about yourself when you're in a room by yourself and there's no Twitter, there's no email, there's no slack ping, there's no dopamine hit.

Casey (00:32:39) - Like, what do you really think about yourself? And truly, I just felt like, Gosh, I got to get going. I got to do something because I can't just sit here because if I just sit here like I'm nothing and I think a lot of dudes just work really hard. And, um, you know, they all come to that point. A lot of them, a lot of them in their 40s and 50s, you know, kids are out of the house, they work so hard and now they're like, What now? What now? It happened to my dad. My my parents just recently got divorced after 42 years of marriage. And I told you this, right, Josh? And it's like, what happened there? Holy smokes. I mean, I think we could have a whole other podcast because through counseling and through a lot of healing, I've been able to work through it. But my dad had something to chase after and something to do for years and years and years.

Casey (00:33:26) - He raised three kids and did a really good job, gave us a chance. But when the kids are out of the house and now there's nothing to do, what do you do? Your mind wanders and you think, Well, what's next? What's that next thing that's going to get me excited? And as a seven year old dude, I don't know if I can blame him right now. That doesn't mean that I said what he did is right, because what he did was terribly wrong and the way he went about it was terribly wrong. And I wish he was more open and honest with himself for the 30 or 40 years previous. And I wish he was able to maybe work through counseling like I did and forgive others who did things to him and him himself for things he did to others. And I don't know why I was able to do that, but I just think a lot of guys, they just they don't work on themselves. They're not open and honest and vulnerable and transparent with other guys, and they just stuff it.

Casey (00:34:15) - And then one day the volcano blows up and anybody that's around is going to experience death of some sort. And thankfully, I was able to work through that. I've had my own volcanoes that have gone on in my life. Um, but I was able to have some firefighters around me that were able to help me through it. Um, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's a lot. I just dumped on you.

Josh (00:34:40) - That was beautiful, man. The. This whole thing of chasing and I've got it tattooed on my arm. It says, Who am I? I was chasing an identity, right? It started in construction. Or then I, you know, I was going to school and I was going to be a doctor or special force, and then I was going to be a real estate guru. And then I was going to be this and that. My whole life I've I've had more jobs than most. And if you look at my LinkedIn, I've kept them all up so people could see how many freaking failures I've had because I was chasing this thing.

Josh (00:35:11) - And the problem is, is the clues, The harder you chase after something, the more of a wake you create behind you. Right? I dragged my wife through some terrible financial times. Terrible. And my wife and my kids. Right. Because I was chasing something. And then when you catch it. Like the scores to catch it. You realize that it's like it's meaningless and you're looking around. You got money in the bank, may be sure, but you're unhappy in the way you view yourself. Will will reset. No matter how much money you have, it'll disappear in three days if you if you have an internal temperature that's off and you said this, you can't fix yourself. You got to have people around you or counselors or real trusted friends that could go, Dude, you're pretty effed up, dude. You need some help, right? Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Casey (00:36:06) - I mean, and it takes a lot. To get somebody to actually say that to somebody. Yeah. So, one, let me ask you, if you're listening to this, do you have somebody in your life that you've given permission to to say, dude, you're pretty effed up.

Casey (00:36:25) - Do you have people you've said, look, I need you to tell me, what do you see about me in my life? That you that I need to hear that I can't hear because I can't hear myself. I can't see myself. I don't know what it's like to be on the other side of me. Tell me, what is it like to be on the other side of Casey? And man, it sucked when I had other people tell me that like, man, it was terrible because I'm like, Man, I suck, man. Oh my gosh. I found out so many things that were wrong about me. But if I don't figure out what those things are, I can't solve them. And they're just going to sit there with me for the rest of my life. So I just went to work. So one, do you have somebody in your life? Multiple people. I would say that you've given permission to to do that. And then you might be on this call and you might be that person for someone else.

Casey (00:37:12) - And I bet you don't got the balls to be that person for somebody else. I'm going to challenge you because most dudes don't. They like to say they're hard and they're strong, but nobody likes to have tough conversations. Nobody likes to bring challenge, nobody does. And yeah, I've had to learn how to get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I've kept saying, If I was that person, what would I want somebody to tell me? Yeah. And then I just do it and I risk the friendship because at the end of the day, if they don't want to be my friend because I gave them tough advice, I need to be wise with it and I need to think about it. And I don't just want to fire stuff out like I need to do it in a really measured way and I need to really be prayerful about should I even say this to this person? But if I do and, you know, they cut me out, then that's okay. There's more people out there and I'd be more afraid that I didn't tell them.

Casey (00:38:03) - Um, then if I did right.

Josh (00:38:05) - For sure. I think this is what I'm learning. Is permission given. Permission received. Right. I've had people ask me, Josh, will you mentor me? Careful what you're asking. Because I'm a straight shooter and I would say I was never ready. I was never ready to give people advice until I went to 100 dudes and I asked them their advice. And I honestly took a ton of feedback from counselors, coaches, close friends, family members. And it feels like you said, terrible because you're getting kicked in the teeth. But they also said, Josh, we love you and you're great and that's why we're giving you this feedback. So I think that permission given permission received is one is don't ask for it unless you're really unless you really trust the person and you're going to do something with what they tell you. You might not agree with it, but perceived value perceive perception is reality. A lot of times. My wife said the other day, I feel like you're being mean to me.

Josh (00:39:08) - In my head I was going, I'm pissed right now, but I'm I'm feeling like I'm being super nice. And then God said, Shut your mouth, Josh! And I said, Babe, I'm sorry, that's not my intent. And then the day was much better after that. But if I went, I'm not being mean to you, Look at what I'm doing. I just bought you breakfast and. Right. Perception is reality. So I love your thing is do you have the balls to ask someone, Hey man, how could I improve? How can I be better? What's your perception of me? And then after you are humble, you should probably do that for another dudes. Yeah. I went on a little rant, man. I exploded to. I like it. I mean, we're starting some stuff up. Casey Yeah.

Casey (00:39:48) - And I need to, uh, I probably need to take my own advice on some of this stuff. Right? I have those people in my life, but sometimes you got to dig.

Casey (00:39:56) - Sometimes you got to dig, right? Like, no, be honest, because nobody wants to do it. So I got to dig a little bit more. And, you know, the last thing I would say is, you're right. Like, will you mentor me or Hey, can I give you some advice? I like to be careful with that. I like to not give anybody any advice because then if, like, it didn't work out, then I'm on the hook. Yeah. Like, I'm just going to give you my point of view.

Josh (00:40:18) - Sure. Yep. Yeah.

Casey (00:40:19) - Because then it's like even as a consultant, right? Consultants, you know, if you tell them what to do and then it doesn't work out, or if you tell them what to do and it's the greatest solution ever, which usually I'm pretty spot on with what I see because I see it. But if they don't execute it, it all comes back to me. It all comes back to me. So I like to empower others by giving them things to think about rather than telling them what to do.

Casey (00:40:43) - Because if you do, then one, it's not going to be their idea anyway. And if they take ownership over it, they're more likely to actually do something with it.

Josh (00:40:51) - What's your favorite show or artist like music or painting?

Casey (00:40:57) - Gosh, I like, uh, what's the old school Jeremy Camp. He's like this old school Christian singer from West Lafayette, Indiana. I'm a Purdue guy, so I like Jeremy Camp. The singer? Yeah.

Josh (00:41:08) - All right, copy that. So if you were hanging out with Jeremy Camp, right, and he turned to you and he said. Hey, man, this is what I think about you. And it was like you're the guy that you, like, looked up to, and he told you, like. What do you think? As a dude, you need to here to help you go to the next level.

Casey (00:41:32) - What do I think as a dude I need to hear to go to the next level?

Josh (00:41:36) - Yeah.

Casey (00:41:39) - You're wanting me to answer that question?

Josh (00:41:42) - Yeah.

Casey (00:41:46) - It's so much for me to think about right now, but I think it's such a great question. I'm going to write it down because yeah, like I don't know if I have the answer right now. I'm sure I could just spout something out. But it's like, what do I need? Is a guy to go to the next level, Probably self awareness. I would say we kind of all need to be more self aware how I'm doing, how I'm feeling, how I'm interacting, how I'm communicating. I would say I work a lot on it, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. It's nothing specific. It's just being more self aware.

Josh (00:42:16) - Yeah, it's a, it's a tough question and it kind of throws you off because you're like, God, we're talking about bands and music and then like the, the kind of the kick in the nut. Tough question. You're like, wow, what what do I need to hear to grow as the next level? Mine was the the one that happened just prior to my dad passing away.

Josh (00:42:34) - He looked at me and he said, I love you. I'm sorry. Right. He did something pretty dumb, But he goes, I'm proud of you. In like, that was a game changer for me because I was seeking my dad's approval or seeking man's like approval on things. And then I realized that if you unpeeled all of the layers of Josh and what he's done, it was me chasing the approval of people so that if someone was talking to me, they would go, Josh, you've got your acceptance from your Heavenly Father. You don't need anybody else's approval. Let's go do some cool stuff. So then as I'm growing so I think I need to be reminded of that, like Josh, your son of God, like you're his kid, he loves you. You got full acceptance. Now go do things that are bold. You got this. Go, kid. Go get them. Right. So that's. That's what I think. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. But I've had, I've had Now, to be fair, I've had time to think about that answer.

Josh (00:43:28) - All right, So, Casey, I love the way your brain works, right? You're so skilled in in problem solving and scaling and seeing and building systems and processes and people and implanting leadership. Like you're you're really talented Like you, you have a gifting in that. And that is your, your, your skill set, right? Like that's what you show to do your profession and such. In the Christian world. Here's one of the challenges. They go, Oh, that's great what you do over there. You need to get involved in church and ministry and blah, blah, blah. Do you think that they're a this or that or do you think they merge?

Casey (00:44:10) - I mean, I think they merged. I mean. I think everybody has a call for certain things and great, you want to be a church pastor, you want to be whatever. Well, you get them on Sundays and that's pretty much it. Unless you go to an old school church and they meet on Sundays and Wednesday night, it's like what happens Monday through Friday? The marketplace work like do ministry and work.

Casey (00:44:35) - And it's not like you need to wear a cross on your forehead and be baptized and people in the bathtub, right? Like feel free, do it. That sounds pretty cool, but it's just like get to know people and see what they got going on in their lives and encourage and inspire them and empower them. Like that's a ministry. You know? Jesus just believed in people. You know, he called Peter the Rock when Peter denied him three times, like he wasn't the Rock, he was actually kind of a turd. Yeah, like, but he said, You are the rock. And then Peter turned out to be a rock. He turned out to be an absolute badass. Like, yeah, he was like, the dude was great, but he wasn't great at the time. So it's like, I think whatever it is you do just like call people out and tell them what they're going to be and what they can be versus rather than what they are, because they probably already think they're a turd anyway.

Casey (00:45:20) - Most people think they're a bunch of turds. That just is what it is. Most people don't love themselves. Most people don't even know who they are. So if you do love yourself and you do know who you are, which you're probably in the minority, then encourage and inspire other people to do that. And if you don't know who you are and you don't love yourself, like ask help, Get help. Learn what it takes to start loving yourself. Because if you don't love yourself, you don't like who you are. Like you might be successful at stuff, but it ain't going to work out long term for you. Like it's just not going to. I was watching Tangent, Notre Dame Ohio State football game the other night and this 86 year old man, Lou Holtz called out Ryan Day who's the head coach. Dude's probably 40 something years old for Ohio State. And he didn't really call him out. The guy's 86. He goes, Look, I got dementia, but here's my thoughts.

Casey (00:46:12) - And he said, I don't think Ohio State is this and this. And they play soft and they. Well, Ohio State won the football game literally by one inch on the last play of the game like they barely won. And I'll be honest with you, they shouldn't have won. Like if they don't get it, everything Lou Holtz said was true and it still is true. Like Ohio State, they were kind of a soft team. Well, they interview this 40 year old man who's supposed to be a leader of men on the field after the game, and the guy totally showed his face. He's like, where's Lou Holtz at? Where's the ad? I can't believe he said that about her. And the guy, like, went after this 86 year old man with dementia that was really just joking around and having a good time. And you can kind of see what Ryan Day thinks about himself and like his identity based on those comments.

Josh (00:47:00) - And I sure.

Casey (00:47:02) - Don't usually call out like big time Division one coaches so.

Josh (00:47:05) - That if he's listening in right now.

Casey (00:47:08) - If he's listening, I would love to have you on my podcast The Dugout CEO. Sometimes we talk about baseball. We can talk about football if you want. Ryan But it's like legitimately like like you can see his shame. You can see what he struggles with. You can see that his identity is in football. And maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am wrong and I probably just caught him or the world caught him at a weak moment. Yeah, but, you know, it's just it's just hard. Just guys in general, like. And I don't know how it's going to turn out for him. But his predecessor, Urban Meyer, watch the Florida documentary on Netflix. Urban had the exact same issue. His identity was in football and Urban taught Ryan. So I don't know, maybe I'm on to something. But Urban had a breakdown. Urban ended up getting kicked out of Ohio State. Urban ended up getting fired from Jacksonville, the Jacksonville Jaguars, because he did a bunch of dumb things because I don't think they were either truly secure and who they were or their identity was misplaced, or maybe they did know their identity.

Casey (00:48:08) - But the pull of the world that drives you to things that you shouldn't be doing and thinking is so strong that you have to have other people around you to help you. And I hope Ryan and I hope Urban and I hope myself, because I have the same problems that Ryan Day has. I literally have my identity wrapped up in what I do now. What do I do with that? That's the that's the thing. When that message hits at 3:00 today or whatever that said, Casey, you're no good. You're a piece of shit. What am I going to do with I'm like, that's that's the enemy. No, I I'm actually doing a pretty good job. I think I am. My wife loves me. She tells me I have two little ones. Like I have a house. Like I think I'm actually doing pretty good. Both what the world will say is you don't have this house, okay? And you know, your kids might do this or the business should be this or you should have this.

Casey (00:48:55) - I mean, it just hit me a couple of minutes ago because we're about to have twins. We're about to have four kids. We have a smaller house. I don't want a big house because it's more for me to clean, especially with my wife being pregnant. But a new house just went for sale down the street. And we looked at this house three years ago. My wife and I were newly married and we had no kids. We said no. Oh, we don't even have enough kids to fill it. It went for sale. I went down there and I wanted to be like, Can I make you a cash offer right now? Here's. Here's $800,000 in a suitcase. I'm sure I could figure out a way to make it happen. But it's like part of me is like, man, why can't I just do it right now? Why can't I buy that house right now? Do I need to go get a loan? Do I need to? So these messages, they hit you that tell you you're not doing good? These messages in the world tell you you're behind schedule, you're not good enough.

Casey (00:49:43) - And it's just how are you going to recognize that message and play the long game that, you know, I'm 38 years old, God willing, I'm going to be on this earth another 38 years. That's a long, long time. But I think everybody feels like they're behind schedule. And if you can keep a long term perspective, I think you'll be in better shape.

Josh (00:50:02) - Yeah, One of my coaches. Thanks for sharing that. I think that happens. That happens. I drop off my kids at school, we drive, I drop them off in a golf cart. So I'm sitting there and my daughter goes in early because she's in safety patrol and I'm sitting there with my son and I'm looking at these kids walking around with Lululemon backpacks and this. And they sure, you know, it's and I go, oh, man, I hope they're not getting caught up in the brands. But then you look at me, you know, like, do I have a camper? Do I have a truck? Do like fill in the blank or, you know, what does my house look like? What does my yard look like? Our our identities are wrapped up in so many things, and it's so easy to get caught up in what I don't have.

Josh (00:50:41) - And yeah, we could have another conversation on that in the future, but. It's knowing the living water, right? We get our water. We get our living water from a guy named Jesus. Yep. And I think that's that's interesting because if not. And what people could believe whatever they want. Like I have to show and the guys here definitely know my viewpoints. But if not chasing, chasing chicks, that was fun. Chasing alcohol or drugs, chasing work, chasing success, chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing to things. As soon as you get them, you realize it's empty. It's meaningless. I thought I'd be happy when Fill in the blank. So let's do this. Casey, man, I've really appreciate the time and the connection you made here. And, you know, sharing your story. You have a podcast show. Give your podcast, show a shout out. Let us know where we can go listen to it.

Casey (00:51:35) - Yeah, I think I'm going to have Ryan Day on soon as a guest, maybe Urban Meyer after that.

Casey (00:51:39) - But it's called it's called the Dugout podcast. We talk about life leadership lessons. We have a little bit of a baseball theme. So if you're a baseball fan or played the game, you would absolutely love it. If you weren't a baseball fan and didn't play baseball, you would love it if you were a guy. If you want to learn secrets of how to win on the field and the boardroom, whatever that looks like. But yeah, we've been doing it. Gosh, I think we're 20 episodes in. We got another 25 in the hopper and we've had Major League All-Stars on Hall of Fame coaches, leaders. We just interviewed the rookie from the movie Jim Morris, which that was a super cool interview. But yeah, we just get some good guys on and talk about leadership life, how to be a husband, how to be a leader on all levels.

Josh (00:52:21) - Cool. And for guys out there who could use some help with their business, they're like, Look, I've gotten to the point we're making money.

Josh (00:52:28) - We're trying to figure things out, but I need help. Take it to the next level. Where can people connect with you and talk? Talk business. Talk shop.

Casey (00:52:36) - Yeah. Casey So I am on there. You can download. I got a couple free guides that you can download on how to get out of the day to day grind of your business. I have a newsletter. It's called the Friday Focused Newsletter. Every Friday, I send a quick little email. You can read it in 90s that will give you like simple, applicable things to get more done of the right stuff. So yeah. Casey ELLE.com.

Josh (00:52:57) - Cool. What's one question I should have asked you that I screwed up and did not ask.

Casey (00:53:02) - I think you did a really good job. I don't have anything right now. You asked me at the very beginning it was What was the one thing that you wanted the guest to come away with? Was that right? What did I say?

Josh (00:53:14) - You said you want guys to think long term and kind of chill out and to look at to look at things more of a long term perspective.

Josh (00:53:24) - So you said many things, but that was the main thing that you kind of said. You said, I've got another 38 years. I'm 40. One of my coaches said, Josh, why are you in a rush? I said, Because I feel I'm behind. Yeah, I didn't hit the goals that I wanted to buy. Now I'm not what, fill in the blank. And he goes, Dude, 40. He got another good 40 to 50 years left, man. You're going to be hustling to the day you drop. Keep going, dude. And I was like, Yeah, you're right. I could chill out a little bit. That's it. So that's what you said.

Casey (00:53:52) - So I think hopefully we've covered that point. I think we're in good shape.

Josh (00:53:56) - Cool, man. Guys, thanks for listening into this episode of Uncensored Advice for Men. As always, reach out to our guests, say thank you. Their contact information will be in the show notes below. Now, if you are a dude who needs something and you just need someone to pray with you talk with you.

Josh (00:54:09) - My cell phone is (352) 274-4500. And maybe you have something to share to other dudes. Head on over to uncensored advice for men. Fill out a quick form and maybe get you on the show next. So then we'll talk to you all on the next episode. Bye, guys.