The Discipline of Self-Love with Mike Palma

Josh (00:00:03) - Goodfellas. Welcome to Uncensored Advice for Men. This show's for you guys. I love you. I'm thankful for you. Oh, there's the camera over there. You might be listening in as you run, jog, drive, whatever. I just want you to know that the origins of this show came from me being in a dark place, needing help. And I decided because I was a podcaster, to capture the moment. So as I was getting counseling and coaching and therapy and all this stuff, I would record the conversation and share it with you guys. And it's continued. We've done over 200 episodes in this show has has reached a lot of people and and I'm thankful for it. So as I have conversations with some of my friends, sometimes I bring a friend in studio here in Ocala, Florida, because we've had an interesting and interesting conversation in the past. And I go, you know what would be cool is if we capture that and share it with other guys. So I want to introduce you to my friend Mike.

Josh (00:00:58) - And he he runs a production company and he does some pretty cool stuff here in Ocala. And he actually travels around the globe doing it. And we were talking about some things and I want to bring him on the show. So, Mike, welcome to the show, man. Thank you so very much for having me.

Mike (00:01:12) - Josh I'm excited to kind of be on it and see what we talk about and go forward.

Josh (00:01:16) - Yeah, man. One of the conversations we had in the past was around the topic of self love, and you brought in a quote, you brought in a quote for us. So why don't you start out there?

Mike (00:01:28) - So the quote is Seneca, who is a stoic philosopher during Roman times. He quotes one of his favorite philosophers, Cato, and he says, What progress, you ask, have I made? I have begun to be a friend to myself. I think that's such an important part. Thinking about self love and kindness to yourself. And then Seneca continues to say, a person who is a friend to themselves is an aid to all mankind.

Mike (00:01:58) - So as you treat yourself well, I believe you have more compassion and love towards others as well. Expressed better too.

Josh (00:02:08) - And then keep keep going.

Mike (00:02:12) - He also says that those kinds of people are kind, they're calm, they have empathy for themselves and for others. They aren't desperate. They can quietly spend time alone. They don't need to pull others down to lift themselves up. They can stand on the shoulders of giants, as Isaac Newton famously said in 1675, instead of stepping on their necks to secure advantage.

Josh (00:02:35) - So, guys, my encouragement as we're reading through that kind of let it be a health test for you, like, are you desperate? Are you pulling people down? Do you feel like you have to, you know, jockey for position and such like that? But let's talk about self love in that, you know, Seneca said. I have become or I have learned to become a friend to myself. So that means if you just break that down prior he was not a friend to himself.

Josh (00:03:03) - Where are you at in your journey of self love there?

Mike (00:03:07) - Mike It's a it's a daily process. It's a it's a daily discipline to really be more cognizant of how I'm treating myself, either mentally or physically, you know, what kind of self-talk am I having, especially when I'm in difficult situations like right now, trying to get back into shape and physically be more strong and stable as well as mentally. And that's that's been a really tough process. So, you know, in the past I've been very hard on myself, very difficult on myself. And last night, kind of getting back into it, thought it was going to be this you have more fear of. Of what's going to happen that might not ever happen. Then when I actually did it, I felt great. I felt really good. I felt I was overcoming these little time challenges I was having for myself. And I was like, Man, I'm really proud of myself. I had to talk myself and have this positive outlook to keep me through.

Mike (00:04:07) - And it was like mentally visualizing myself, like, you know, how a coach would coach a, you know, a player into doing well and to being better. It was almost visualizing the ideal self of me, coaching myself into finishing and going through with this because we know what the benefits are for us. We know that we should do it, but not yelling or being mean. But like you got this almost giving yourself a a hug in a sense, knowing that you completed it.

Josh (00:04:36) - Yeah. So prior to these kind of things, you know, if we look at the opposite, you know, we say very hard on myself instead of proud of myself. There's a there's a shame. Coaching yourself instead in the past, maybe it's been ridiculing or bullying encouraging. Instead of that, you know, the opposite of that could be like putting down what was the pivot point in starting to learn the discipline of self love for you?

Mike (00:05:03) - I don't recall any kind of specific day or moment or pivot point.

Mike (00:05:09) - I think it's. A thing that gradually happened over time, especially, you know, starting my own business and realizing the relationships that I had in my life. Like with my parents, it wasn't so great, you know, with my girlfriend, it was great. But, you know, I wanted to figure out how I could kind of be better. If I'm that good to myself, then I kind of you can feel desperate for attention, and that's not healthy either. And a lot of those things came up from from childhood. And instead of ignoring it or experiencing more of the same, um, you know, I realized like, okay, this kind of needs to stop. You know, I got a lot of change happens for me when I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah. So that's kind of where probably it came from. I don't remember specific day or moment, but I think it was a gradual progression as I kind of discovered things. On improving my way of living.

Josh (00:06:05) - I'm I'm similar in this desperate for attention, right? Growing up for some reason I needed more or I didn't feel like what I was getting did the job right. How did that show up for you?

Mike (00:06:23) - Can you repeat that one more time?

Josh (00:06:24) - Yeah, that's desperate for attention for me because I needed validation and approval. I would do things to get, you know, to get approval, to get other applauses, to get people to look at me and say, You're awesome. Josh Right. Like I have a high need for approval and validation in my life.

Mike (00:06:44) - I understand that. Yeah.

Josh (00:06:45) - How does that show up for you or how did it show up for you?

Mike (00:06:49) - I think being artistic and things of that nature and always being somewhat of an entertainer, I mean, even looking at old photos of me as like a toddler, I was always kind of entertaining. I had like a magic hat and a magic wand dancing on my grandmother's table, you know? So I think as an artist, we always seek validation from others.

Mike (00:07:08) - And and because of, you know, things that happened with my parents, grown up with them being divorced. And, you know, that obviously plays a factor into attention because both of the parents are trying to make it right for the children and but also trying to figure out their lives to and manage the whole chaos that comes with that. And, you know, some of that kind of bled over into school. And I always, you know, wouldn't be the clown, but I would always try to do something to kind of get attention. And then I'd be maybe jealous of the people who were. And that wasn't right and it wasn't healthy, and that was an active improvement. But I always felt like I had to be a perfectionist and everything I did and trying to get approval. And if it wasn't good enough, you know, then I'd have to throw it away and I would just be in I would be heartbroken and in dismay. And sometimes, like, you know, when I'm producing something.

Mike (00:08:01) - Ideally, I would like to have produced it once and never touch it again. But sometimes there are revisions, and that's just the nature of how life is and problem solving goes along with that. And. And so sometimes I could still be kind of hurt when the client might need something new. But I'm realizing more and more that's not a me problem. I'm not doing anything wrong. It's not bad. We just have to make certain adjustments and everything's okay, you know, It's just being kinder to myself in that aspect, especially creatively like. It's not always going to be perfect. We're not perfect. And to seek perfectionism is kind of foolish. And the less that it sounds kind of funny, the less that you care. The better that you do. I noticed that in some of my artwork, when I'm drawing on the side, kind of like gave up like being exact and precise and kind of just had fun in the motion of it, in the act of it and just the journey of it.

Mike (00:09:08) - Because it's not about the destination. Yeah, you want to get there, but you also can't rush it either.

Josh (00:09:13) - So you run a you're on your own business called Palma Productions. Tell us about Palma Productions.

Mike (00:09:19) - So Palma Productions is a video production company that helps connect business owners with their target audience. Through the power of video. We help engage, educate and connect them with video. And the best part about it is, you know, we try not to be just another production company where we're producing ads after ads where it's, you know. Boring and not fun and not engaging, becoming more of the noise. What we try to do is really not only tell their story, but also do things in a creative and engaging way that people feel connected to that business. They feel like they can trust them because they're not only educated in what they're saying, but how they're saying it. And. And. Helping them grow, but also as we facilitate the growth of those companies through video, we're also helping grow the community and making it better too, because then they're able to better serve the community.

Josh (00:10:16) - In doing video productions, you have learned that seeking perfection is foolish and that there is there are healthy revisions. Yes. Right. Like it would be great if you could just show up, record capture done. And then the world sees a perfect product, right? That would be great. But that doesn't happen.

Mike (00:10:38) - That doesn't happen anywhere anyway.

Josh (00:10:40) - Why in our life do you think that we we put those kind of restrictions or requirements on our own self? When you're saying like, healthy revisions is good, it's a part of the process and you've learned to enjoy that. So as we talk about like a self, a healthy self talk, we talk about, part of that is healthy revisions. What you've learned over in your production side, how are you applying that to your life when it comes to healthy revisions? I think.

Mike (00:11:09) - When you. When you do more of something, you become. Better at it. You you develop a better eye for something. And so then you just have to be aware, you know, you can't just go through the motions because then you're never going to grow and learn.

Mike (00:11:26) - Yeah, you have to understand. Okay. For example. Oh, this shoot. Okay. I took too many clips at made my edits to take it too long. I have too much to pick from and not all of its good. So. Okay, next time I'm going to be more aware of what I'm shooting, how I'm shooting it, and I have less footage, less memory taking up on my computer. And so you kind of learn from like little mistakes and stuff like that. And then when you're going through life in my personal life, for example, you maybe might have said something you didn't want to say or shouldn't have said, or you said it in the wrong way, or you manage something improperly and realizing, okay, I made that mistake, it already happened. I can't dwell on that. How can I improve that? How can I try and make the situation a little bit better? Being honest, being transparent with that person and and letting go of any kind of ego that you have if you have and hold on to any kind of ego.

Mike (00:12:25) - Um, and that ties in with perfectionism. Any kind of adjustments or changes are going to be really difficult for you.

Josh (00:12:35) - Yeah, Yeah. Perfectionism and ego kind of go hand in hand. The ego says I must be perfect or I am perfect or better than perfect. And the perfectionist is the proof in the pudding, right? You can't you can't have a massive ego and you have all these filters all over the place. Or maybe you're just a narcissist. Who knows? So if as you're learning about the discipline, I like this kind of like this theme of the discipline of self love. It's a it's a discipline. When do you know that? It's that you're falling out of self love and moving more towards self loathing or self hate? Like, how do you know that you're in a healthy spot?

Mike (00:13:16) - I know when I'm moving out of that healthy spot is when I'm starting to become quicker to be irritable and anger. I'm not enjoying the process. I start to even feel physically too uptight. Yeah, can't sleep.

Mike (00:13:30) - You know, I'm starting to ignore these things and kind of just trying to solve problems and issues without actually taking into account how I am and how I'm feeling and. If I can't operate at the levels I need to be in, then I want to be both professionally, but also being kind to myself in that aspect too. Then I'm no good to anybody. And that goes back to the quote. If you're not kind to yourself, how can you be kind to other people? And you might still be kind to other people and not kind of yourself. But you start to kind of create some sort of self loathing there as well. And eventually you stop treating people well, too. It's, you know, it doesn't stay like that forever. Just imagine the amount of people that don't treat themselves well, but they treat others well. If they put that energy into themselves as well, and not in a narcissistic or egotistical way, but just in a healthy way with healthier confidence. And sometimes that's a really difficult line to for me to manage is confidence and ego and trying to figure out where that balance is, because sometimes I'll start to feel confident and it's a little it's, it's a new area at times and it's a little frightening.

Mike (00:14:36) - And you're like, am I being egotistical or am I setting healthy boundaries with myself and with a person that I'm interacting?

Josh (00:14:44) - Yeah, you you recently did a short film which maybe you could share the the link. Absolutely. Yeah. You did a short film and kind of describe what that was and why you did it.

Mike (00:14:58) - So the short film, it's titled Are We Going to Make Something? And the premise without spoiling the ending, I'll leave that for you guys to watch. The premise is it's two friends getting together and. They want to make a short film together. So it's very kind of meta in a sense, because I've been wanting to do this with my friend for a while too, and I wanted to implement the problems that I face. So I kind of personified in a more. Exaggerated way some of the issues that I face. So like being distracted and wanting to do it, but I'm not doing it. So I'm kind of caught in that spiral of like, Oh, I really want to do this, but I'm letting other things get in the way.

Mike (00:15:42) - So I'm playing the character where he's wearing a distracting outfit with a bunch of neon signs on it. I'm on my phone and my buddy's trying to get my attention and he's wearing simple one color clothing representing him like, Hey, I'm focused, I'm ready, I'm not being pulled away, and then kind of getting into an argument about. Um, creating and actually putting aside the distractions. And I think that's very important and telling for people to as a deeper allegory saying, hey, if you really want to do something and you want it that bad, you have to put away the things that distract you and make a mental and a physical environment where you can actually focus.

Josh (00:16:26) - Yeah. What inspired you to do that?

Mike (00:16:30) - I think we actually sat down that same day to write, shoot and edit all in one day. So we wanted to. We just wanted to make something and we were like, What are we going to do? And we started toying with the idea of like, Well, what's on your mind? What are you thinking about? What's really applicable here? And I started kind of working with my buddy on the idea.

Mike (00:16:51) - I'm like, Well, let's write about some of the struggles and things that we're going through. And I think they're also relatable with a lot of people and and just like, be transparent. Enough and be comfortable enough to actually just show that on camera in a fun way. So, you know, there's so many different things that I'm putting a paper. It's like life experiences help a lot with writing.

Josh (00:17:15) - So for sure, when you look at the struggles that you've had, you know, around self-love, ego, perfectionism, confidence, healthy boundaries, what kind of unhealthy boundaries did you have with yourself and that you're learning to work through?

Mike (00:17:32) - A lot of them were like people pleasing kind of unhealthy boundaries, codependent boundaries, you know, all of those things that were kind of unhealthy and. And. You know, I was doing a lot for other people, but I wasn't doing enough for myself. And and it started to kind of like drive people away and drive relationships away. And and I would be emotionally distraught at those things.

Mike (00:17:57) - But I'm like, okay, I can be a little too overbearing or maybe it's not inappropriate, but. That's a that's not the right word, but. You kind of just. Are dependent on other people and you're not depending on yourself and you're not improving yourself and you're seeking the attention, the approval and all your desires on the wrong places.

Josh (00:18:27) - Yeah, one of my coaches had me read two books that come to mind No More Mr. Nice Guy. And then the other one was Codependent No More. That's a great book. It's a great it's a great book for for people who have for guys like me. And maybe you have a high need for approval and validation. We we could tend to create these scenarios where we're needed and we get in these relationships with needy people because I need to be needed. So I have a need to be needed because I like the validation and approval that makes me feel good about myself because I lack, um, confidence, lack the security of who I am. So then I find people who need something that I can offer, and then it creates this codependent relationship where I'm needed.

Josh (00:19:13) - I need to be needed. And that's unhealthy. How did you. You read the book. How did you learn that about yourself? Like, what was the time where you became aware like, Wow, maybe I'm creating these unhealthy relationships or needs to be needed?

Mike (00:19:31) - Well, before I even read the book and before it was recommended to me, I was in therapy. I was like, All right, I'm feeling irritable. I'm dealing with all these issues and problems and I need some professional attention to kind of help unload this. But not just like talking to a friend where, hey, you might get some advice or you're just. Letting out how you feel, but you're not actually processing it and you're not getting professional attention on how to make it better. So, you know, the first diagnosis from the mental health professional was I think you are dealing with co-dependency issues, especially with the relationships that you had with your parents growing up. And it was hard to accept that. The chat. Your childhood, no matter how old you are, can still catch up with you.

Mike (00:20:21) - Um, you know, no matter. You're my age at 27 or even if you're in your 50s, 60s or 70s and you still want to improve, if you don't acknowledge any of those things, it's not going to get better. Yeah. So then after hearing that and discussing it with my friend, him and I are very similar. Um, he was recommending that book to me as well, and I'm like, Wow, okay, I'm learning more about myself and. Even when you're learning more about yourself, about even the things that are difficult, like codependency, or if anybody else suffers from any other kind of mental health illness or issues or problems. When you're learning those things. For me, sometimes I struggle like, Oh, I don't have that. I don't want to have that. I don't you know, it's like there's I don't want that to be wrong with me or like, try to spin it into something without actually accepting the reality of what it is. So that way when you do, you can actually properly and healthily move forward with it instead of it just being something that you're in denial about.

Josh (00:21:29) - The five stages of grief or whatever. I don't know if I remember them all, but there's denial and then there's acceptance, right? I know that there's anger. There's there's a few others I don't remember. I'm not a psychologist or a counselor or therapist, but the denial versus acceptance. Um, when I first started getting counseling or coaching, I was very resistant to it. I was in my 30s and I thought I had to have my shit together. I thought that people who needed those kind of people were weak, right? And I thought I was always mentally strong until I wasn't until I started cracking. And and the cracks that showed up for me were, um, how I treated others. And I love people. I'm here to love people. But I was short. And then once they presented it to me, I was in denial at first. Even though they presented the facts and the symptoms, I was in denial. And it took, you said earlier, sick and tired of being sick and tired to the fact where and I think this is a drop of ego, too.

Josh (00:22:31) - It's where you go. Maybe they're right. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, right. For that to happen. What must happen for us to come to that place where we're willing to put ego on hold? I think that's.

Mike (00:22:48) - That's kind of different for everybody A little bit. I mean. I think. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the circumstance, you almost kind of have to learn the hard way and. When people that you really care about. Make it open and clear for you to kind of change and you realize it's not going to get any better is when you kind of have to put that ego aside unless you don't care about anybody. But I doubt anybody listening doesn't care about somebody. Yeah. Um. It's just I don't know. I think acceptance is different for everybody. I can't talk about that for anybody else. But for me, it was I've always been very aware about things, especially even when I was younger. I was I was 17 going on 70, dude. It was I've always been my friends call me Grandpa Mike.

Mike (00:23:43) - So, I mean, and I'm the youngest one. But I think just being aware of it and. Just listening to people. I don't I it's hard to tell people, you know, what you got to do or where to look for to be aware of when you got to drop that ego or how you drop that ego. I. I think for me, I've always I was always afraid of being egotistical. So I'd always be too humble, and that would also become people pleasing and hurt me. And I realized, oh, I was actually hurting myself all along. And then I started hurting kind of other people, like mostly family that were close to me, you know, with how I was talking and being frustrated. And you can't put that on anybody else but yourself. Sure. And you like I still have one of my friends, close friends that introduced me to the book. Still calls me out today on things if I'm saying or doing something. And sometimes he'll be like, That's a new problem and that feels aggressive.

Mike (00:24:45) - But I'm like, You know what? He is right. That is a me problem. And just like sitting back processing that without having a knee jerk emotional reaction. I highly recommend learning about breathing techniques because when you do that and take a deep breath after somebody has told you something that might be a little personal or hurtful, just sit back, take a deep breath, give yourself a few minutes. You don't have to respond right away. You know, always have to give back an answer.

Josh (00:25:14) - I struggle with that. When being in the world of podcasting and media, you're in media. You share a lot, right? You put yourself out there a lot and people will respond to it. And sometimes the response is not the response we want. The response I want is Go, Josh, go. You're awesome. You know, freaking awesome. Here's some money, right? But sometimes it's not that sometimes, like, hey, you're freaking wrong or that was harmful or whatever. And the first my first reaction is to respond because I'm defensive.

Josh (00:25:44) - Like they just stepped on my toe, like I just created this art and they just kicked me in the nuts. They're telling me my art or my creation is not beautiful. I struggle with that man. And the other day I just took a breath and I said, Explain. I said, This is how I see it, but explain them. And they explained it. And I whether it was right or wrong, I just go, okay, I understand. How do you do that? Because you are in a world that's highly creative. You have to take someone else's idea, put it in, you know, bits and dots and, you know, pixels and all this crap that they.

Mike (00:26:18) - Don't have an idea and you have to pull that out of them and or make something for them to kind of see. So prime example. Yeah. I recently did something for a friend. The video was great. He loved the video, but it made him aware that, Oh, that's not actually the direction I want to go.

Mike (00:26:38) - He's like, It's great, but I don't think it's on brand for me. And at first I was like, What are you talking about? I don't think you know. But I didn't really say that to him. Yeah, I let him kind of talk it out. And because of that, he's come up with a branding solution for his business. And I understand where he's coming from now. And I realized, okay, just even if it's good. That doesn't mean it's for him. And I can't take that personally because some people have to kind of discover what they want. Yeah. And that that comes with the territory of making mistakes or people trying to figure out and, and discover that. But ultimately I had to take it from, oh well now I can't share this video because as a creative you always want to share and show what you make. And sometimes that doesn't happen. And I'm like, Oh, you know what? In a bigger, better way, I actually helped someone out in a more thoughtful way because then they really started thinking about their business and how they want to be represented in a different and better light.

Mike (00:27:39) - And I'm like, You know how powerful that is for to give someone the the even just the thought of alone of, Oh, this is how I really want to be. I never really gave that thought. Yeah. And so now we're working together and to continuing to make that happen. So you just really have to look at it in different perspectives and break it down logically and not let emotion. Rule or dictate how you feel.

Josh (00:28:02) - Yeah. So before we I want to dig in on that a little bit because I think that there's some gold there that I heard. But you said you learned some breathing exercises. Teach us one.

Mike (00:28:13) - I mean, super, super basic one. I try to do it every morning. You breathe in for four seconds. Hold your breath for another four and exhale for six seconds. It allows you to have time to breathe. Be focused on how your breath feels, where you're expanding, either in your chest or your diaphragm. And so you're focusing on your breath. You're focusing on the time.

Mike (00:28:38) - Your body responds to it well, but you're also not letting your thoughts be dictated by the emotions or a situation because your mind is focused on your breathing. And don't force yourself to think, Oh, I need to be calm at this moment. I need to do this. I need to have expectations to feel this way while I'm doing it. No, you just breathe and count nothing else. It's that simple. And sometimes when you're really emotional, it's hard to do. But just do it. Do it 3 or 4 times and then go back to what you were doing or take a walk. You know, walking is great too.

Josh (00:29:11) - I had to do this with my wife. My wife and I started to get into an argument and you could tell when it starts with like, Hey, man, we're getting along real great watching a show, hanging out, having a glass of wine or whatever, and then you could feel like something that wasn't even there start to escalate. And and I used to be a guy who kind of just like I could stonewall you and just walk away and just be like, all right, I'm done.

Josh (00:29:32) - Like, I could just separate myself from any type of, you know, physical, emotional, physical or mental emotion or whatever. But, you know, I sat there and I took a few deep breaths and she thought I was ignoring her. What I've learned and this was helpful for me and I'd loved your thoughts on this as I go. I need a minute. I need a minute to think about this. I'm processing it because then she wasn't feeling ignored. Um. In your breathing exercises, have you found that there are times when. It's not appropriate. Or there's times where you need to create other space for that. Like what with breathing? Because I think that it is important. I think that you're on to something big here, like when and how to do it and maybe when it's not appropriate. Does that make sense? 100%.

Mike (00:30:18) - I mean. I think it could be appropriate, in my personal opinion, anywhere. It's how you preface it or speak it to people. I think society is so trained to be quick on responses or just things in general.

Mike (00:30:34) - So if you preface it with somebody who might not be familiar, be like, Hey, I listened to what you said. Let me take a couple deep breaths to calm myself down or to think about it better or process it appropriately so I could give you the best response I possibly can without anybody being upset. And then if that person can't appreciate that or they they feel upset about it, well, you can't control what other people think or feel. And ultimately, you have to accept that too, because you know, what you are doing is to be the best that you can be, especially in that stressful moment and unfortunate for them that they might not be able to understand that. But you're doing what you can and you should be okay with that. Um, you know, like me and my girlfriend, sometimes I'll have to be that way, or sometimes we'll talk it out. Or even if either one of us might be snappy, will immediately apologize and like, okay, let's take a step back and let me try to really say what I wanted to try and say.

Mike (00:31:33) - And that really goes over well. I've never really had a bad situation where that happens. Even if you don't breathe the full exercise like that. Just taking a little pause from the conversation and breathing deep through your nose and just do a quick little one and breathe out and you know, that might help the situation, too. So I think communicating is a big part of that. So you might be able to take it or depending on how bad the situation is, you might need to excuse yourself and say, hey, I need to step out for a second before either one of us get really upset. Let me take a walk or a breather and we could revisit this when I get back. And usually that works best for both parties involved because both of them have time to think about what was happening.

Josh (00:32:23) - For sure. For sure. Back to your story with your friend. You know, your production company. You've done tons of videos. You've been doing it for a long time and you're really good at it from the work that I've seen.

Josh (00:32:33) - Yeah, you're welcome. When you're working with someone, you're like, It's hard when someone doesn't know what they want.

Mike (00:32:39) - Oh, it is a little bit, Yeah.

Josh (00:32:40) - So I'm a 40, almost 42 year old dude. I have a few businesses and sometimes, man, I wake up and I have so much clarity on my mission, my vision. I know exactly what's going on. I know what I need. But there's been times where I don't know what I want, and especially if I'm leading or working with a consultant or another company. And they're like, What do you want? Sometimes I don't know what I want. And that's hard for an artist to create something when you don't. When someone doesn't know what they want, how do you approach that?

Mike (00:33:10) - It can and can't be. I mean, I tried to. Actively listen to them as they talk about what they do and what their business is and how I look about how they operate and do business. What other people have said about them.

Mike (00:33:22) - I look at existing literature. I look at their. Websites and things that that their business has. And I try to put together what I think it represents. And then. I try to put my own creative thoughts and spins on it. I mean, it's supposed to be a collaborative process, you know, not. Either side should be completely overruled because they're hiring me to come in as a creative to represent their business in a creative way and to make it different. But I'm also listening to them because we need to keep it true to the heart and the mission of who they are and what they do and their identity. And so when they don't know and it's hard to kind of get that out of them, I'll go ahead and just work with them on the process and communicate with them along the way. Hey, this is what I'm thinking. This is what I'm imagining. And like with my friend, you know, he was going with it, but he wasn't sure. So I said, All right, let's just keep going with it.

Mike (00:34:21) - And if you don't like it or you want to change something, we could absolutely do that. That's that always happens in anything creative or even when you're doing something simple as just creating a process for something. Yeah. Being a creative doesn't necessarily always mean like video and drawing artwork and painting and all that or writing. It could just be something simple. I'm creating a better dialogue or a better process with somebody, so you have to just think about it differently. And for him, it took. A visual aid of me creating a product for him to see and realize and understand, Oh, I really know what I want now. Okay. That makes a lot of sense.

Josh (00:35:03) - Yeah. I found this helpful when working with a coach counselor, a third party when I could see a reflection of what I'm expressing. So I'll say this is what I want or this is maybe what I think I want. And then I see it reflected back to me, whether on a website or a YouTube video or on a podcast like this.

Josh (00:35:23) - The reflection shows me like, Oh wow, that's not what I want. And I think that's healthy. That's a healthy process. Um. Yeah. I mean, that's such a great that's such a great opportunity to, to maybe go through with someone of saying, hey, Mike, I'm, you know, I'm working, I'm trying to create this and I don't really know what I want because you put something back and it's a reflection of what you've heard and felt. And then they could adjust, make one of those healthy revisions with an artist, though, especially one with high need for approval. So you spend all your time, energy and effort and you create something and you know, the other person loves it and you put it out to the world and nobody it's like crickets out there. Nobody approves of it. Nobody likes it. Just. Just no thumbs up. No thumbs down. Just nothing. Silence. Like, how do you work through? How do you work through that? Being an artist?

Mike (00:36:19) - I always have somebody to respond to.

Mike (00:36:21) - I've never had just crickets before. You know, I have.

Josh (00:36:24) - So.

Mike (00:36:25) - And maybe I will. And I think. I would like to say when I get to that point, if that happens, I hope hopefully not. Yeah, I would rather a negative comment than no comment at all. To be honest, some sort of feed. I think as a creative you need some sort of feedback. So but I'll like with his video. I shared it with a couple of trusted peers that I work with or that are friends of mine and discuss to them the situation. And you know, I would get different thoughts and perspectives on it and maybe approach it differently or do something differently and having those perspectives. From them made a huge difference for me. I'm like, Oh, okay, now I can understand it and go about this better be careful with. Especially as a creative with who you share what with, because we could seek approval from the wrong people in the wrong places Whose opinion? It's harsh to say, but don't matter if you're looking at something from a technical standpoint or from a business standpoint or creative standpoint, whatever it might be, if you're sharing it with somebody who has no knowledge or understanding of that particular.

Mike (00:37:33) - Aspect. And they give you a, Oh, that was great, or I don't like this and it's not helpful to you. You're boosting your ego positively or negatively just to kind of get, Oh, that looked great or what was awesome or that was bad, but they can't tell you why. They can't really objectively help you. So realize be careful who you share information to in order to get a better result for sure.

Josh (00:38:02) - As a creative podcaster and all the all the stuff, we have to remember who the art is designed for. Yes, you could call it the target market, the avatar or whatever your audience. Audience Yeah, because here's here's the struggle that I've faced in the past is I create something for a specific group of people, and another group of people liked it or didn't like it. If I take my eyes off who I'm serving, then my message and my art starts catering towards the applause rather towards the impact. And that's where over time I could I could have a gap between who I am and who I'm trying to serve.

Josh (00:38:43) - Its authenticity, right?

Mike (00:38:44) - Absolutely.

Josh (00:38:45) - How do you when you're creating videos for other people, how do you how do you make sure that it's. Authentic to you, the audience, or that the ideal audience and then the the person that's about.

Mike (00:38:59) - I always do research on what is out there to kind of get a perspective of like, okay, maybe this client has this kind of. In this industry has this kind of video or this product. How did the audience that they were trying to reach or the public receive it? Yeah. I look at that. I actively listen to my client to try to understand what they want and how their how they sound and feel during the conversation. And then. Every bit of it is all an expression of me because no matter what I'm doing in the in those creative choices or decisions, I still filmed it. I still edited it even with their input or their decisions or even me just getting the answers out of them through questioning or through fact finding or through them helping them tell their story to me.

Mike (00:39:55) - And then therefore on camera as well. All of that wouldn't have been possible. Sounds a little egotistical. Wouldn't have been possible without me or any other creative helping them through a process like that to get that, get that out. So all of it has my mark. And I also try to stay influenced by other people that I like but not copy somebody being influenced and copying somebody are two different things. And and I know I kind of have specific styles too, when it comes to doing business videos and stuff like that, and I like to try to change it up a little bit or apply and do new things as well. And that's me as a creative person expressing that in how I do it too. So all of it has my imprint on it. But it's not just me alone. It's a whole collaborative process.

Josh (00:40:46) - What in this world brings you the most joy?

Mike (00:40:52) - A couple of things. Sure. Um. I love. Doing things with and for people and seeing a smile on their face.

Mike (00:41:01) - And I just love being surrounded by the people I enjoy in life. Yeah, I mean, it's that simple. You know, Or even if I'm just there for them talking or they're there for me or whatever, just being around the right people makes a huge difference. And not staying stagnant too, because some of those people challenge me and I need that and that makes me ultimately happy.

Josh (00:41:21) - What's your favorite thing about yourself?

Mike (00:41:23) - Oh man, what a question. Never really gave that much thought. I think the my favorite thing about myself is. The ability to overcome in spite of my fears.

Josh (00:41:46) - In your world. If you can wave a magic wand and fix one thing in your own personal world, what would it be?

Speaker 3 (00:41:53) - Hmm.

Josh (00:41:57) - Geez.

Mike (00:41:59) - To fix one thing. I mean, ultimately, if I could permanently stay kind of myself all the time, that would be great because in I think it's not like one specific area of like maybe, hey, if this part of my business was fixed, everything's better and it's okay, or if this specific thing in a specific relationship and make everything better, I think it all comes down to what you do and how you treat and do things with yourself that impact everything outward.

Mike (00:42:33) - So ultimately, I think it comes back to the to the self love thing because. I realize I'm much better when I'm kinder to myself, I'm better to myself, and I'm better to those around me. And that just circles back to the quote that we said at the beginning.

Josh (00:42:49) - And in the quote, It says that you'll be able to stand on the shoulders of giants. Right. And it says you will be an aid to mankind. With the work that you're doing, how do you view it as being an aid to mankind?

Mike (00:43:08) - No matter on what scale I do these videos, whether it's a creative short film like I did, or whether it's a commercial that I did for a client or a documentary or whatever it may be. It's a benefit to. All mankind because. Those people whose stories that I'm telling or sharing or helping to express themselves better, they ultimately also help the communities that they serve or they're a part of or bring light to something that people aren't aware of or ignore. Like the short film, the distractions I had, a lot of people were like, Yeah, the ending was great and it was funny, but man did that.

Mike (00:43:53) - The premise in the beginning about being distracted really hit home for me. I don't want to be like that. I can't be like that. Or me sharing a video journal documentary that I did a few weeks back in California, like opening myself up and being transparent and made people feel more comfortable and transparent or doing something for a business like showcasing a really good, honest business. Because I don't I pick and choose who I work with. I don't work for everybody. I don't work with everybody. I might not be even for everybody. As much as I'd like to work with a variety of people and make all the money, that's just kind of the way it is. I've had a fire clients before too, because I don't accept either being treated negatively or seeing them how they treat people. So those people that I try to take care of that do good work. If we can help them. Grow through the video and then that way they're continuing to do more good work for people in the community. The community is better for that, too.

Josh (00:44:55) - What questions should I have asked you during this interview that I screwed up and did not ask you?

Mike (00:45:07) - You did not ask me. Not really sure.

Speaker 3 (00:45:18) - Okay.

Josh (00:45:20) - As we're as we're rounding out the towards the end, you talk a lot about the the discipline of self love. It's a discipline. What are maybe 2 to 3 tips you could have for for a guy out there who's really struggling with this self love and maybe they're at the point where they're like, they hate themselves. They look in the mirror and they hate who they are. What is maybe 1 or 2, three piece of advice on how to start developing that self love?

Mike (00:45:48) - I highly recommend going to a therapist. Therapist? Super powerful. I mean, that helped turn a lot of things around for me. Even though I never I've never truly hated myself in a in a full sense of that aspect. Therapy still made a huge difference for me in order to be more aware of that. Tip number two. Hang around the right people.

Mike (00:46:18) - I mean, you are who you become, who you spend with the top five people in your life. I'm pretty sure the saying is or something like that, if you're not around a good community of people who. Do have good habits. They help one another, they grow one another, they're honest with one another where they challenge you and help you grow. You need to be around better people and kind of almost force yourself to be around those kind of people. Because sometimes when you hate yourself, you also don't want to be around anybody. And I know how that is for sure. So you kind of have to maybe challenge yourself to get uncomfortable. In. Tip number three is. Rediscover, even if it's been a long time since you've done it, rediscover something that you love and enjoy and think about why you love and and enjoy doing it.

Speaker 3 (00:47:11) - So good.

Josh (00:47:13) - Get help. Be around the right people and rediscover. Rediscover what you love and what gives you joy. Mike Where can people go to connect with you? Find Find out more about you and.

Mike (00:47:24) - Well, I am on Facebook, Instagram. I stopped using Tik tok. I can't stand that platform. Me personally. I'm also on LinkedIn on there. Mike or Michael Palma. And then we have Palma Productions. There's a couple of Paloma productions, so make sure you look for Paloma Productions, 1995. That's kind of like the tags for all of them. Mine is the one without the palm tree.

Speaker 3 (00:47:51) - Got it.

Josh (00:47:52) - Got it. Well, Mike, thank you for being on the show. Guys, as always, reach out to our guests. Say thank you. Their contact information will be in the show notes. We'll put some links in the show notes for the short film that he created. You know what? As you watch this or, you know, look through that, what kind of emotions does it bring up? What kind of thoughts does it bring up? And then what other kind of content would you like to see might create as he's building more on these like personal development videos? He's done a journal, he's done a self-help one on distractions and such.

Josh (00:48:23) - So what else would you like to see? I love you guys. And maybe if you have something that you'd like to share with other men, head on over to uncensored advice for men. Com. Fill out a quick form and maybe we'll get you on the show next. Till then, we'll talk to you all on the next episode. So you might see you.

Mike (00:48:39) - Thank you.