Overcoming Porn Addictions with Frank Rich

 00:02
Josh Wilson
Good day, fellas. Welcome to Uncensored advice for men. I love you guys. Let me just start out with saying I'm proud of you. I love you. What you're doing, listening to podcast shows and to stuff is sharpening your own skill set, sharpening yourself, personal development. I'm proud of you for taking these steps. I just want to let you know that this shows for you. This shows for men and for guys who want to grow. On today's show, we're going to have a conversation and before we hit record, he says, I want to remove taboo from this topic. We're going to be talking about something heavy and just kind of give you guys a heads up. Don't listen in this. With young kids around, this is not safe for work. You have been warned with that. Coach Frank. Welcome to show. 

 00:47
Frank Rich
Josh. Good to be here, brother. Love the intro, man. With welcoming the man and expression of love. We need more man to man love in this world. So love seeing that or hearing that. 

 00:59
Josh Wilson
Yeah, dude, we do need that. Because I think for guys, for me, right. I grew up, my dad was pretty awesome. He was tough Vietnam guy. Love was expressed differently, different ways in different circumstances. I think guys need to have a healthy dose of love from another masculine dude. If we're talking about masculinity, nothing screams that more than that mustache you're rocking right now. 

 01:26
Frank Rich
Come on, now. Yeah. This has become, I guess, a symbol for me. It comes up on a lot of conversations just at the beginning, just like this. I was with Jim from men in the arena. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Men in the arena podcast. We opened up exactly the same way. Jim, he was rocking the mustache in the 80s himself. It's funny, he did live a little comparison photo of what he looked like in the 80s, which was right around the same age that I am today. It was a really cool kind of comparison to see that back in the day, he was rocking it and now I'm making it a goal to make it be great again. Literally thinking about getting the MAGA style red hat that says make stashes great again and just beginning to represent them. What's been cool, man, is as the brand and following has grown, it's cool to see the men of the community begin to rocket as well. 

 02:13
Frank Rich
I don't know if they're trying to emulate me or they just like, I'm going to test it out and see what it's all about. But, yeah, I've had it for a couple of years and it's not going anywhere. 

 02:21
Josh Wilson
It's not going anywhere. You might have to have a mustache off with one of our investors, Drew. He has a phenomenal mustache, too. Okay. He's a fellow where he used to fight fires with him. He's still doing it but he grows a good mustache, so we might have to have a competition one day. Guys in the audience, send in your best mustache photos to see if you could beat Coach Frank. So, Coach Frank. 

 02:48
Frank Rich
Who are you, man who is Coach Frank? Well, I'm a coach at Hartman. I've been leading people I've been leading men specifically for almost 20 years, man, if I even go back and this is something I've been focusing on more recently to try to understand why am I succeeding at the level, and why are we able to have the impact I was conditioned from? 18 years old, every job I've ever had has been in a leadership kind of environment. 18 years old, I'm stocking groceries within two months. I'm leading a team of twelve men that are many times double my age, like, just working an overnight stock crew. Got into leadership development in my early 20s, had some sales training, very successful there. And then I got into entrepreneurship. Mixed in with all that, I was doing bodybuilding personal training. Now I host a Superman Live podcast and the CEO and founder of Rebuild Recovery, where our goal is to help men become better men by quitting p*** first and then rebuilding their live. 

 03:46
Frank Rich
So it's what I'm dedicated to doing. I think that there's a need for stronger, more masculine men in the world. I've planted my flag in the p*** addiction space to bring that message and help men level up in the five years of life faith, fitness, finance, family, and freedom. We specifically target and speak to the men that are struggling with p*** addiction. 

 04:06
Josh Wilson
Wow. So many cool things. So let's do this. Any time I interview someone who has a podcast show, I want to tell the guys in my audience to go check it out. Where could I go to check out your podcast? Download it, subscribe to it, give it a raving five star review. Where could they go to find that? 

 04:21
Frank Rich
Yeah, we're everywhere. Apple, spotify. I mean, literally, if there's a platform that plays podcast, we're on it. So I appreciate that. We're 146, 147 episodes, and it's a weekly interview style, kind of just like we're doing here today. We've had Biohackers. We've had Christian pastors on. We have an apologist on. We've had Neuroscientists live to really span a wide range of topics. Yeah, Apple is probably the best place. Just got word yesterday we hit the top 100 in the fitness category this last week, which was something we've been aiming at for a while. So, yeah, check it out, guys. If their value, those five star ratings go a long way. If they suck, one star rating will mean just as much to me. So, yeah, I appreciate that. 

 05:07
Josh Wilson
Cool. And it's superhuman podcast, right? 

 05:09
Frank Rich
The superhuman life. Superhuman is split. Two words. 

 05:13
Josh Wilson
Got it. Cool. All right. Awesome. Dive back into this interview. You were going through the five FS, right? When you were saying that, I was thinking of dodgeball the dip live Dutch. What are the five F's that you guys focus on? 

 05:29
Frank Rich
Yeah, we like to talk about faith, and they're in a sequential order, at least I believe, of importance for a man that is truly going to build a meaningful, optimized life. So faith comes number one. I'm a Christian, just like you are as well. We take a lot of the conversations through that lens, but we'll have other people on. We've explored other faiths, other spirituality as well, not as a way of I want to highlight those things, but I want to have open conversations with everybody, just see where people are lined up. So faith number one, fitness. When I talk about fitness, it's not just physical development. It's emotional fitness, spiritual fitness, mental fitness. Really, the man needs to become who he was born to before he then can go out and tackle the third one, which is going to be the finances. Finances is more than just what you do for a living. 

 06:19
Frank Rich
How you produce income and revenue. It's what are you doing with it, how are you stewarding the money that you're making? How are you using it as a tool and resource to maybe give back to the community? Are you tithing? Faith, fitness, finance, then the next, I call it pillar of a Man's Life would be his family. Right. Building, becoming a man of value and protection, that can, a number one, lead the family within the home, but also the family kind of outside of his home. What is your circle of trusted advisors look like? What is your community like? What is your brotherhood that you spend time with on a weekly basis? Taking outside of the home there and then the freedom component kind of serves two meanings in our world. A number one, because we focus on addiction recovery, getting free from those, specifically pornography, is obviously the men that we serve. 

 07:04
Frank Rich
Freedom from all min, freedom from all vice, just living a life of true purpose and meaning. Second, meaning and freedom is what are you doing with the time that you're not working, not serving your family? Are you intentional about learning new skills? Are you intentional about personal growth? Or is your free time spent on the couch binging, Netflix, consuming nothing but NFL sports and sporting games? Just trying to give guys a number one, a framework to kind of look at life through and then providing them with the tools to really step up and level up in those areas. 

 07:35
Josh Wilson
Yeah. Let's put this on the table, right? One of the things that you focus on, you put your flag in the p*** addiction space out of all the things that you could have nailed. Right. A wheel, and you're like, P***. Let's go after p***. How did that come about? 

 07:51
Frank Rich
Man yeah, I wish it was like that, right? I wish that I could go back in time and be like, yeah, I was thinking about this in high school. It's what I always dreamt about. I checked the box after the SATS. It's like, this is what I'm going to do. Number one, it wasn't even really a conversation 20 plus years ago, but a lot of it started with me having to overcome my own struggles. Most of what I'm doing here today is a byproduct of my own personal transformation. First realizing that despite having achieved what some would look like as a successful life on the outside, multiple businesses, bodybuilding awards, trophies, fitness, modeling, monetary success, card, just all the things that the world tells you is what success is. I accomplished all that, but I did it. I was unfulfilled and unsatisfied, literally live. Some of the worst times in my life were when people were looking at me like, frank, you're doing everything you set out to accomplish. 

 08:47
Frank Rich
What I didn't understand is that an event that happened when I was six years old really set me down a path for the rest of my life. So 39. I think that there's some context there, because my introduction to pornography was a Hustler magazine. It wasn't the Internet, it wasn't social media, it wasn't pornhub like a lot of young men have today. That first exposure taught me two things. Number one, the female body is amazing, and when you see it in its fullest nude form, it makes it feel a certain type of way. Also, because I found a secret stash, I learned from a young age that it's okay to have secrets from the people they care about in your life. For the next 25 plus years, I lived a double life. I lived a parallel life. Accomplishing things, graduating multiple letters in high school, getting awards, getting recognized, going, getting scholarships, then getting into the business world, the leadership development, the entrepreneurship place. 

 09:41
Frank Rich
One area of my life was like, Frank is crushing, and he's doing amazing things. Frank was also struggling with drugs, alcohol, sex addictions, pornography, living a double life, not realizing that I was doing anything wrong because I was taught from six, like, it's okay to have secrets. It wasn't until I found my faith in 2018 Josh, that things began to change for me. So that kind of set me down. This catalyst one is through men. I found Jesus. I found my faith through strong, influential, high achieving men that were living their faith out first, and then everything came underneath that. On February 14 of 2019 was kind of when I had that kind of real talk and discussion with myself. At this point, I've been looking into the research and trying to understand p***, p*** addiction. What was happening to my brain for about four to six months. 

 10:33
Frank Rich
I was presented with an amazing opportunity on Valentine's Day, Min 2019, where I was having a conversation with somebody had a lot of respect with. This is a former Marine, somebody that is strong, masculine. He was telling me about some breathing exercise that he was doing to help him control his sexual energy. The byproduct of it was he was able to stay off a p***. I never had a conversation with another man. More specifically, this one about struggles with pornography. He opened up and told me that he had been struggling for a decade, even in times of war in Iraq, it showed me that, hey, I'm not the only person in the world that has these secrets. It opened up an opportunity to have a conversation with them on that day. That was when I was kind of fed up and I was done with it. 

 11:19
Frank Rich
I made a commitment to him and I said, I'm sick and tired of living this double life. I had an amazing woman in my life at the time. We're no longer together, but I foresaw a future. I also knew that the future wasn't going to come into fruition if I wasn't being truthfully, honest, both with myself and with everybody else. So I made a commitment to him. I asked for some help and accountability. Min the next three months, josh my life radically transformed. Number one, the way that Zach responded to me in the car made me realize, it's going to be okay. People aren't going to judge me if I go out and talk about this as long as they are the right people. I started to reach out to a lot of my friends and network, just letting them know, hey, there's things in my life that I've been struggling with, but I'm committed to getting out there. 

 12:02
Frank Rich
The amazing thing that happened, though, is instead of judging me, instead of casting shame on me, like every single conversation ended with their arm wrapped around me saying, it's going to be okay, I've had to overcome this, and it's probably going to lead you to something greater in your life. That led us to in July of that year, I'd always wanted a podcast. I had probably 50 different titles written out on a whiteboard with different ideas. Nothing ever felt like it was right, though. As my brain began to reset and reboot, and as I began to see the world a whole lot differently, I said, Maybe there's an opportunity here to share this with the Vworldc. You've been studying high performance. Frank you've had some success in business, you've had some success with your body, you've had some success in coaching people. What about the people out there that don't have your background? 

 12:47
Frank Rich
What about the people that maybe don't have the resources that you can get to some of this information. They could probably benefit from hearing how this is changing your life. The original genesis for the podcast was just to put my story and message out to the world with the hope that maybe it would inspire somebody to maybe look at what they were doing. I had no plans of building a company out of it, monetizing it. I just wanted to have conversations. I enjoy people. I'm very curious, and I thought that maybe there would be other people that were interested in some of the things that I was. What was amazing is over the next six months so I was running a fitness company at the time. We were doing some training programs, some one one coaching. As the podcast began to grow, we got recognized by Apple New and Noteworthy. 

 13:29
Frank Rich
The messages began to change. It was no longer, Frank, thank you for your workouts. Thank you for the programs. You gave me bigger arms. You helped me get shredded, or any of these things. Those were still coming in, but the messages are, Frank, thank you for your conversations. Thank you for your willingness to address the taboo subject. Right? That began to grow into, frank, I'm struggling. Can you help me? The coaching that I'm doing today has been a byproduct of literally just people asking me. January 28 of 2020 was kind of the soft launch of what has now grown into Rebuild Recovery. That was the day I said, hey, let me see if there's a way that I could help a guy. I have two clients enroll in kind of a case study program back then that's now grown into our 16 week curriculum. They have available in a course and a group coaching one one coaching. 

 14:18
Frank Rich
I don't remember the original question. I think it was around how I kind of got here. I'd overcome my own struggles first, begin to have open, vulnerable, transparent conversations, and everything else has kind of been birthed out of all of that. 

 14:32
Josh Wilson
Yeah, thanks for sharing, dude. I think, guys, we hide things pretty well, right? We put on the mask, and we posture really well behind our big truck or behind a cool mustache or whatever it might be. To take off the mask and to be transparent, to open ups the kimono on a cold, wet day and go, this is just what I got. Either we're friends or not. That's terrifying, especially for a guy like me, who I'm a people pleaser. I get validation from others. Right. I've had to learn that it comes from another place. But how did you go through it? What was the struggle or if any was there to go? I'm putting this live. I'm feeling called to or whatever you want to say, to talk about this openly. It's embarrassing sometimes, especially if Mom's getting her hair done. Hey, what does your son do? 

 15:25
Josh Wilson
Well, Coach frank talks a lot about masturbation. Like, talk to us about that, Min, like, taking that stand publicly. What kind of backlash did you receive? What kind of fears did you have getting into it? 

 15:38
Frank Rich
It's a great question, Josh, and I'm not sure I've ever been asked that way. Honestly, man, I don't think that there was any resistance at all. This is why I believe I'm operating out of a calling right now, because there was no resistance or hesitation about doing it. In fact, in 2021, I'm a guy that likes to kind of set a word for the year. My word was alignment. My goal in 2021, after being a year into coaching, was that if I met somebody, if went more than 90 seconds or two minutes of conversation with this person, they were going to know what I was or who I was and what it was I was doing. I was, in fact, looking for opportunities to share it with as many people as possible. I mean, I walked through the Las Vegas airport with a T shirt that said real men don't watch p***. 

 16:26
Frank Rich
I'm at the point now where I actually want to invite this conversation into my world because I'm not scared of it. It's interesting that you said that. Me walk around and we want to hide behind things. I think for me, my faith has probably led to where I'm at today with not avoiding these conversations. We think about Genesis, and I'm not a Bible expert or anything, I've literally been reading it for four years this month. In the story of Genesis, when our eyes are open and the scales fall off of our eyes, the first thing we go do is we go cover ourselves. I believe when you're walking with God, when who you are and what your purpose here in this world, you cannot be naked, that's not honoring God. For me, to avoid the conversation that has been placed on my heart would be a disservice to me, to the world, to the men that need it. 

 17:19
Frank Rich
More importantly, it would be a disservice to what God has given me with this platform. I wish I would tell you, man, there was something that I was struggling with and I had this tactic and strategy of how I was able to overcome with it. I felt a call from the beginning. The conversation was placed on my heart and I knew that it was going to be received. I had faith that heath there might not be the massive audience. It may not reach millions and millions of people. We're getting there, though. It's been interesting, but yeah, man, I really wish I had something more that I was struggling with. It just literally felt like this was the conversation I was going to have and I was going to be the one of the ones leading it. 

 18:01
Josh Wilson
Yeah. Awesome. You're 39 years old. If you look back and you're like, this is when I was the most badass coach. Frank, what age were you or now when were you the biggest physically? 

 18:19
Frank Rich
Yeah, I have my physical peak around 33, 34. It was right environment I was in, it was a time in my life where I was succeeding in business. Didn't require a massive amount of time for me to make the money that I was making. I had a lot of time, energy and focus that I could put into my body. 33, 34, this is when probably the end of my competitive career. Towards the end of it, I started meeting in classic Physique. Coming up, there's nothing more for me to really do other than bodybuilding. But I'm six foot three. You don't see a lot of pro bodybuilders walking around above six foot. It's kind of a short man's sport. I never saw a huge future in bodybuilding because I wasn't willing to do to my body what would need to be done in order to reach the highest level. 

 19:12
Frank Rich
Around 2015, though, the NPC created a vision called the classic Physique. It was kind of a way to bring back kind of the Arnold era because at this point, bodybuilding has just become too freakish, too big. It's more based around a height weight ratio. So for me that year I'm 63. Let's say I was probably around 4% on stage, I compete around 236, 237. For comparison, Arnold in his prime in the was competing around 235, 240. Not saying I looked anything like Arnold. He had some of the best genetics to compete at the level that he did, but that was when I was really physically at my peak was 33, 34. I mean, I got a 600 deadlift, I got a 565 squat on record. I got a 500 bench, all within a series of a couple of months there at a sub 8% body fat as well. 

 20:06
Frank Rich
So, yeah, the physical peak came around 33. My peak as a coach and as a man is 39. I'm looking forward to being 40, 41 and so forth because I don't see myself slowing down. 

 20:20
Josh Wilson
Awesome, ma'am. It gives me a frame of reference. You and I go back to that top bad a** dudes ticks the stage, people are clapping, right? You go, hey, dude, one day you're going to talk a lot about p***, right? You didn't know God at that time. Your faith wasn't there. You're going to say you're going to stand up on stage, you're going to have a podcast show, and you're going to talk a lot about p***. What would that conversation look like if I went back to that guy and said that. 

 20:52
Frank Rich
Wow, dude, that's a good question, man. 

 20:56
Josh Wilson
Thanks, man. I'm inspired by your mustache. Just like these awesome questions are running through my brain because of it. 

 21:04
Frank Rich
I think that there would have been a part of me that knew that the stage was in the future. I got trained in public speaking in my early twenty s. It was a part of some sales and leadership development that I did. I got to speak at an event 22 years old in a company with all the national sales trainers, all the regional sales trainers, and all the local sales trainers. About 400 executives were sitting in this room and I had to give a mock presentation for us, rolling out the new company sales training. So I've always been a speaker. I always knew that there was a stage in my future. Now, the interesting thing is, how would I have actually received the conversation around pornography back then? Because at the time I was deep into an addiction and probably so much to the point where I wouldn't even have accepted that pornography addiction was a real thing. 

 21:57
Frank Rich
If we go back to 2014 to think, number one, my ego and pride wouldn't allow that to be accepted in me, that there was something wrong with me and what I was doing, because look at the byproduct of what I created in my life, right? He Ian hill me. I'm doing something wrong. I'm crushing it, every single area. I also had no real interest in exploring a faith back then. I subscribe to I'm a spiritual type of person, but any time the topic of God came up, I'd be the one that's like, okay guys, you go enjoy your little silly conversation over there. Let me know when it returns back to the adults and I'll come back and join you guys. That's where I was frame of reference, perception about even accepting some of these things. That's weird, man, because understanding or grain that there was going to be a future podcast in my future would have allowed me to entertain that conversation. 

 22:49
Frank Rich
I don't think Frank, 33, would have accepted pornography addiction as a real thing. 

 22:56
Josh Wilson
Yes. Which is kind of unique, I'm not saying, but you kind of look like one with the you got a cooler do I see a cool earring? You look like a 19 eight movie star live. You're ready to go do something? I don't know what, I don't know where my brain's taking this, but yeah, you got a super unique look. But I agree with you. If I went back and I tried to say, hey, Josh, one day you're going to talk about p***, you're going to talk about God on podcast shows, you're going to interview all sorts of people. I'm like, Get out of here. Because I was too afraid to stand naked in front of people and be found out. I was terrified of that. Dude. 

 23:37
Frank Rich
Dude. I literally built a shield of a body to protect myself from the world. That was why I got into bodybuilding. That was why my goal was to any room I walked into. I need to be the biggest, strongest, most, quote unquote alpha guy because I got hurt when I was a kid. I remember 13 years old a summer. I was at my cousin's house. Cousin is one year older than me. You're 13, you're hanging out with 14 year old boys. What also comes with that is 14 year old and 15 year old girl. And I can remember the summer. Live down in South Florida. Everybody's got their shirts off. Frank is carrying of extra weight. Frank used to buy his jeans at the Husky department in JCPenney. I've always had this label of live. I'm a little extra chubby than the regular kids. I wouldn't take my shirt off that summer and that stuck with me because I got picked on. 

 24:26
Frank Rich
I got rubbed into like, frank, you're fat, dah dah type of thing. It stuck with me and it planted inside of me like, this is never going to happen again. I had the opportunity to take control of my body at 18 years old, I went all in, man. That is something about me is when I have an area of interest, I go all in. That was bodybuilding at 18 and literally three months, I transformed the way that I looked and it showed me that if you put in the work, if you learn this, if you studies, if you stay committed, your body will transform and grow. Obviously that's carried over into other areas of my life. With success in entrepreneurship, with success in coaching, podcasting, it's just been consistency, consistency through discipline. But, yeah, my bodybuilding journey was a byproduct of I was a hurt little kid and I didn't want anybody to ever be able to hurt me again. 

 25:12
Frank Rich
The only way that I needed to do that was to build a shield from the world. 

 25:16
Josh Wilson
Yeah, super cool. You said South Florida. What part of South Florida were you in? 

 25:21
Frank Rich
That was probably Pembroke at the time. In Miami? Yes. So I'm in Tampa. Both my parents were born in South Florida. My dad's from North Miami Beach. My mom was born in Hollywood, Florida. Towards the end of the late seventies, early 80s, they were ready to start a family. This is kind of the Cuban revolution. They didn't see that really going too well with everything that was going on in Miami. So they migrated up to Tampa. Most of my aunt's, uncle's, cousins stayed in South Florida. We spent a lot of time in the Hollywood Fort Lauderdale Miami area and still do to this day. I have a lot of my family heath. 

 25:58
Josh Wilson
I grew up in South Florida in Sunrise and Plantation in that area. So I'm very familiar. And I was a chubby kid, too. Maybe that's. Why I built a fitness company back in the day. Chubby kids build fitness companies. That's what happens, right? 

 26:10
Frank Rich
Chubby kids that figure it out. I don't think staying chubby would really succeed in a fitness company, but, yeah, the ones that transform that payment, our pain and trauma oftentimes leads us to the bigger calling on our life. 

 26:26
Josh Wilson
Yeah, so you said something interesting as I'm looking back through my notes, is you said, I don't think that I would have looked at p*** and go, there's nothing wrong with it, right? Like my ego pride or whatever would have said, Dude, nothing wrong with it. You're not doing anything wrong. Look at you got success in business. You stand on stage, people are clapping for you, all these things look like they're lining up. There's nothing wrong with what I'm doing. A guy comes to you and you're having a chat and you start talking about p***, he goes, Dude, nothing wrong with it. What do those conversations look like? 

 26:59
Frank Rich
Yeah, well, I don't have a lot of those conversations because the men that reach out to me are reaching out for help. I'm not here to get into arguments and back and forth bantering with people, I'm here to help the people that actually want help. Now, if that ever is the case, and it happens all the time, right? People push back, whether it's on social media, very few people push back at me in person. I don't know if that's still because I'm six foot three, £250, so I'm somewhat of an intimidating presence and I understand that and it's things that I'm working on because I think I can be a little intimidating oftentimes in Preston Co, guys consuming pornography says it's no big problem. Two things for you to do, stop watching it. If it's not a big deal and you don't need it, just I challenge you to stop watching it. 

 27:48
Frank Rich
One or two things would happen if a man accepts that challenge. Number one, he's going to return back to it, because you're going to need some boundaries put up live. You're not just going to decide today if it really is a problem in your life. You're not just going to decide and then get it out of your life. He'll decide to quit, then he'll find himself a week, two weeks later, back in front of a screen consuming pornography, then we can have another conversation there. The second thing would happen is if he does decide to quit and actually succeed, 30, 60, 90 days, his life will improve. There will be areas of this life, if you've been doing something every single day and you cut it out, the areas of your life will improve. Your brain will begin to reset, reboots. You'll see things a whole lot differently now. 

 28:29
Frank Rich
Josh, obviously there's parts of me that see watching pornography morally and that it is a sin and that we shouldn't do it. As Christians and as believers here, we need to be living a true, pure life. I also don't believe that just because you've watched pornography, you have an addiction. That's not me advocating to go out there and watch pornography. People can drink alcohol and not be an alcoholic. People can do recreational drugs and not be a drug addict. I'm not telling anybody that those things are okay to do, but I think sometimes people get caught up or they hear me say or talk about pornography thinking, like, just because you watch it, I don't think that you're addicted now. I do believe that everybody's life can benefit once they get out of it. I don't think any good comes out of sitting privately by yourself, consuming vulnerable human beings for your own pleasure. 

 29:19
Frank Rich
I don't see any good in doing that. I don't see anything masculine about that behavior. In fact, that's the complete opposite of what I believe it means to be a masculine man. I think a masculine man is one of protection, one of provision, one that can provide, and one that is here to serve. I think men are called to be resources to the rest of the world. If you're sitting in a computer or you're sitting into a tablet or phone on the toilet by yourself, consuming vulnerable human beings, it's the opposite of being a resource like your consumer at this point. So, yeah, this would be probably how I would preston Co some of that. 

 29:54
Josh Wilson
Yeah, super interesting, right. Nobody had to tell me if it was right or wrong, right? I would look at p***, I would research it. Right. Heath and I felt off right live. Nobody had to say, hey, Josh, that's right or wrong. Or if I was caught right, then I'm live. Oh, now there's shame involved in this, but there's something in me that just said, there's something not right for me about this. I don't pass any judgment on anybody. I'm not in a place to do that because I'll get knocked off a pedestal real fast. But I'm just saying, live. For me, I knew it was not right for me. It wasn't right for I wouldn't want my daughter thinking live knowing that dad does that, or even my wife. My wife has a lot of grace for me in my past mishaps and my sins and such. 

 30:43
Josh Wilson
The guys who come to you, for them, it's a personal conviction. They go, hey, dude, I need help. What does that look like when a guy comes to you? Are they pretty right off the bat? They're like, hey, Coach Frank, let's talk about p***. I got an addiction. Let's get it going. What's that look like? 

 30:59
Frank Rich
Yeah. I would say most men are probably going to be where you're at, right. Live. They know that there's something off here. Me saying that I wouldn't have accepted that was me avoiding truth. In my life. If there's a behavior that you're doing privately by yourself and you're not willing to talk about it with other people, there's something wrong there. If you don't see that, brother, you're dealing with a lot of cognitive dissonance, and there's probably multiple layers that you need to work through and process. To answer the question about how the conversations go once the men are talking to me, so we have a pretty thorough process before I'm actually talking to somebody. I'm an insane amount of free content out there. I mean, literally, I've done a video for YouTube every day since July of 2020. We're now doing two. We do one long form, one short video. 

 31:46
Frank Rich
We have two TikToks, two instagrams. We have a podcast with over 150 episodes. By the time I'm actually having a conversation with a man, at least now and today, we've had to build, obviously, systems, applications out there are processes that people go through. By the time I'm discussing them, they've recognized it to problem, they've admitted it to themselves, and we're entertaining what solutions look like for them in their lives. 

 32:09
Josh Wilson
No kidding. All right, cool. They come to you and there's a process. And why is there a process? Right? You've been doing this for a while, but you found that there needed to be a process. You got free content, a lot of stuff out there, and you put together a process. Why is there a process to get to you? 

 32:27
Frank Rich
Because my time is valuable, number one, and trying to build a very large company. We're trying to scale what we're doing here. There's a lot of people that are tire kickers in the world, and that's just because I've worked with human beings my entire life. A lot of people say one thing and then the minute that they're asked to do something, they don't act in accordance with what they say. If you're going to get my time, and I'm going to give that to you, I need to know that you're actually committed to making some type of change. You want to hear what Frank has to say. There's thousands of literally, at this point, thousands of hours of content out there min the world, so go consume all of that. You want to have an actual conversation about making change. I need to know that you're actually committed to making that change because most people in their life aren't. 

 33:18
Frank Rich
Most people are looking for the blue pill that's going to change their life, right? Or the magic solution. That's not the case with overcoming a pornography addiction live. There's going to be work required. There's going to be commitments, there's going to be setbacks. I need to know that you're committed to this for the long term. You're just not looking for somebody that's going to pat you on the back and tell you it's going to be okay. 

 33:36
Josh Wilson
Yeah. There was a court case where they were talking about what is p***? Right? I think the judge said I can't really describe what p*** is, but I know it when I see it. Right. I think that this idea of what is p***. Right. You have hardcore soft core, discord, all that core. Right. For me, this is what I think p***. P*** is something that stimulates my brain and take a note place sexually with another person. Right. As I think about that, I've got a beautiful wife, 13 years married. She's love of my life, right. I want my brain to go to her. Now, I can't always control my thoughts and sometimes my thoughts, man, I could just wake up with some morning excitement and my brain is going wherever it wants. I want to bring my brain back under control and think of her for what you're building and finding. 

 34:30
Josh Wilson
Maybe this was a long way to get to this question is when guys are thinking of p***, do you have different levels of addiction and different intensities where you're like going, whoa, this is all of it's unhealthy. If you're especially for the audience member, if you're here, you need help today? I was taking a long way to get to that question. 

 34:57
Frank Rich
Yes. We have one set curriculum that everybody goes through to years, two and a half years into this tweaking testing. Hundreds of clients gone through. There's been modifications. Tweaks been made. I believe I dial it into if you're going to transcend this addiction. If you're going to transform your life. If you're going to get free of pornography. This is the process that you need to go through now through the coaching. Whether it's done through group. Through one one. We'll be able to kind of smoke out like. Okay is instagram live a very triggering platform for you that you're spending hours a day on and that's leading you back to pornography. Let's put some boundaries and guardrails up there is TikTok is even going to the gym at 05:00 in the afternoon when it's rush hour. Live triggering because gym clothes these days are made to draw man's eyes to the b*** understand that. 

 35:57
Frank Rich
So it's through conversation. It's through coaching that we understand where the guardrails and boundaries get up and I think this is why you need people in your life that are going to be able to walk you through this process because I could give you the curriculum. If you're not able to kind of work through that and see kind of through different layers of these things. I don't think that you're truly going to be able to succeed. No, I don't see it live in layers of an addiction. I just think that maybe there's other behaviors and other this in a man's life that he needs to put some boundaries around. 

 36:29
Josh Wilson
Cool. All right. This is a red pill, blue pill. You get to choose the path today. All right, so in one hand, we're going to talk about this is funny. In one hand, we're going to talk about masturbation. The other we could talk more about triggering. Which would you like to talk about? 

 36:48
Frank Rich
Let's go down to triggering route. 

 36:50
Josh Wilson
All right, so triggering for me, I could be like, all right, not going to watch p***. I start seeing these booty shaking things on whatever. Back in the day, there was no TikTok, but it was maybe YouTube or whatever the case may be. You start seeing that or you go to the gym and you're like, oh man. And then I start taking my path. The way my brain works is, okay, I'm not going to watch p***. I'll watch everything up to and I'll watch, all right, let's just see a booty shake dance or this or that. Right? I would go up to that event and I could white knuckle that and not go too deep into the p***. I was still doing what my brain wanted me to do, but certain things would trigger me to jump. Just go real fast. In your experience with triggers, how does a guy identify their triggers? 

 37:41
Josh Wilson
How do we protect ourselves from our triggers? How do we identify how do we protect yes. 

 37:48
Frank Rich
We walk through a process very early on of really evaluating and auditing, depending on where the guy is at. Go back to the last two weeks every time you've watched pornography. This is kind of done in a meditative kind of drilling state. Where were you emotionally? Where were you environmentally? I think triggers go beyond just what we're seeing visually, right? Like a trigger for a guy. Could be the end of the day, worked long hours, just got back from the gym, had his post workout meal, took a shower. Now he's kind of lying in bed just getting ready to go to sleep. Triggering type of environment, right? Because will proverbs down decision fatigue. You're kind of exhausted, you're just mindlessly scrolling through things. It's a triggering based environment. I think it's understanding that it's going to be more than just what you see in the moment. 

 38:36
Frank Rich
Like, you're not going to see a blonde chick walking down the street, and then that's going to trigger and it may let me go watch some blonde pornography. It's what other things have you avoided doing? So here's a good one, right? For the guys that are saying they're committed to overcoming pornography, I'm trying to get this out of my life. I'm trying, but I keep failing. I keep failing. It's like I don't understand why I'm failing. I think that guy needs to look at what other Rross in your life are you saying things and then not doing them? Where are you saying that you're going to do something and then not following through live. Are you hitting Snooze every morning? Are you saying you're going to go to the gym but you don't go? Are you saying you're going to follow a meal plan yet when it gets late at night, you grab the bag of chips? 

 39:17
Frank Rich
We're not walking in alignment with what we say. If there's cognitive dissonance, we say one thing and act in a different way. That may not be a trigger as way that most people would say it, but that's creating the type of man that doesn't do what he says he's going to do. Why would you actually want to or why would subconsciously you actually succeed in quitting pornography? Our subconscious brain operates at 11 million data points per second. Our conscious brain operates at only 40. What does that mean to anybody? Nothing, except there's an 11 million to 40 ratio of your world. How you see, how you act and what you do that is controlled subconsciously versus consciously. Now, the goal of the subconscious is to make your belief systems match your reality. If every day you're hitting snooze, if every day you're driving past a gym, yet you said you were going to go, that's you subconsciously telling yourself, frank doesn't do the things that he says he's going to do. 

 40:10
Frank Rich
It's late night, you're tired, you're stressed, even though you said, I'm done with looking at pornography, something's going to scroll through the instagram, something's going to scroll through the feed, your subconscious is going to be like, you're a liar. You don't do the things you say you're going to do, so just go ahead and pull up the pornography. I think getting underneath the triggers and understanding, it's a lot more than what you're visually going to see. It's your mental state, it's your emotional state, it's walking alignment, it's environments as well. I think those are things that most live that we do that makes us successful because we're understanding. Like it's all these factors that are leading to it not just what you're seeing on a screen. 

 40:47
Josh Wilson
Super awesome. Through the show and through some of my past coaching, walking guys through addiction or tough times in their life, one of the rules that I had, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, is it a matter of time of day or night or whatever? If a guy was getting triggered towards a certain action, they would text me or I would text them, it doesn't matter. Time of day, time of night, whatever. You might not get a response, but you know that they're going to follow up with a question and they're going to go, hey, what happened? There's going to be some type of communication about it. Heath and for me, I didn't want to have to go to big brother Brian and go, hey, dude, I screwed up again, or vice versa. I found Team Chat was super helpful. Do you find those kind of relationships, those kind of tools are helpful for this? 

 41:37
Frank Rich
Absolutely, man. This is a conversation I've been having pretty regularly both on podcasting and in our community is the environment and communities that we're building. I heard something said it's like the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. It's the community and connection that you build in the path to sobriety. I didn't understand it fully until a couple of weeks ago. One thing we do inside of our group coaching is we assign one one accountability partners, but we also put them into kind of a group WhatsApp? Text message. We had a group of I think this particular group has eight men. Three of them just so happened that they were all going to be in the same state. One is a truck driver. To of them live about 2 hours apart from each other. They were able to coordinate a meet ups on a Saturday where they got together in the desert, went shot rifles, had guns, had an amazing dinner. 

 42:24
Frank Rich
Amazing. Right. When they showed up to the group called the next week, they didn't talk about the guns, they didn't talk about the dinner. They said what made that experience so meaningful was the deep level conversations that they were having with men. You begin to really open up and have real open, vulnerable conversation, the connection and the brotherhood that is built out of that is life transformative. I think that just having the person you could reach out to now, I think that there's another thing that comes when you're in the moment, right, live, when you're like, I'm triggered and I need to do something with my hands. Send a text message, right. You're fulfilling the need to want to do something and you just send a text message to one of the men within the group. So I love that idea. I love the concept there and that it's something that we build into our coaching is, hey guys, you guys should be checking each other every morning and every evening, even if it's just a check in, like, hey brother, keep your eyes on what's important today. 

 43:19
Frank Rich
At the end of the day, hey, this is where I was good. This is where I slipped up. Just building that consistent communication and accountability. 

 43:25
Josh Wilson
Yeah, we've got probably live 510 more minutes before we got to start wrapping up. I think that this is important, especially for leaders, right? I grew up in the church and I try to run away as fast as I could, right. Anyways, I see a lot of pastors, big pastors, taking the fall for things they've said, things they've done, things that they've found on their phone or whatever the case may be. For public leadersre who are suffering in silence, they can't go to their board and go, oh, by the way Bob, I want to look at p*** all day. What is out there for them? Because their job, they might be politician, they might be a pastor, they might be a teacher. If that is let out that they look at p***, even though the world might say p*** is okay, but if this guy finds out that they're looking at p***, they're going to be fired, they're going to be kicked out, they're not going to be able. 

 44:26
Josh Wilson
How do you deal with those kind of situations? 

 44:28
Frank Rich
Yeah, so we've had pastors in our program. We've had public figures, high profile people. I can't say any celebrities, but people that you're describing here live. If this got out into the world, it would matter. Right. Whether they're running large companies or leading a church congregation, I think it's more important for them to find a trusted individual that they can work with. Now, whether that's myself or somebody else. I know there's other great organizations out there, but the church one is something that I see is failing right now at this. I saw a study, I think it was 2019, Barna study. 56% of male pastors and 64% of youth pastors admit to having a problem with pornography. Now, the challenging part is only 7% of churches actually have some dedicated program course or work for men to tackle the issue. I think it's because of the struggle that the leaders are having. 

 45:30
Frank Rich
How can they min integrity, go out there and try to build something in their church if they know they're secretly struggling with it behind closed doors? Why I wanted to remove the taboo adjective from this conversation is we just have to begin to have this open more regularly, right? And it's got to be more accepted. We're early stages of what Gary Wilson coined as a great p*** experiment. The Internet in the form that we have it here today, the infinite amount of supply that's available to pornography on every child's phone and device. We're really seeing the first generation becoming adults today that has had this with them their entire life. I think we have to start addressing this more openly. I've voiced that often. I've tried to get involved with church organizations. I don't know if it's my messaging, my demeanor. I've had difficulties in getting that into the church. 

 46:28
Frank Rich
I think it needs to be addressed and tackled here pretty quickly because it's not going to, of course, correct and fix itself. It's interesting you said at the beginning, if you're listening to this, remove the kids out of the room, which I probably would agree, maybe not the best thing to have them hear this from me or through this conversation, but I had Chris McKenna on my podcast about a year ago. Chris runs an organization called Protect Young Eyes. Their mission and purpose is go out into the world through churches, through schools, to organizations, and educate parents and adults on the dangers of technologies. Now that's tablet that's screens, that are devices, that's apps, it's all the things that when you give your kid the phone, you have to understand you're giving them access to everything in the world. Whether or not you're the best at putting printable devices or parental controls on there, they will find ways for these things to sneak through. 

 47:19
Frank Rich
He said something on my podcast that really shook me. He's like, if you have young kids in the home, pornography should in fact be the most popular word. They should know what it is. They should know who do they run to when they see it. They should know who do they not run to when they see it. They should be able to identify it just as you were able to really articulate what it means to you. I think getting on the front end for parents I that know, wasn't a question that you asked me, but I think it's all kind of coinciding with we have to remove the taboo from this and just be like, hey, this is here one of the biggest problems in the world men are facing. 50% of divorces say that this is a problem in their live. Let's stop pretending like it's not an issue and let's bring it to the surface because it's only going to change when we have everybody willing to accept it, hear it and begin to take action and change. 

 48:05
Josh Wilson
Yeah. Now this is crazy. Even though this is a show for men, I have women who listen in because either they have a young or a young man in their life that they're raising or they want to figure out how to understand their husband's better or for whatever reason. Right. For a female. What advice do you have for the wives out there who husband has an addiction and maybe she uncovered it and she wants to do something about it, but she doesn't know the best way to approach it. What are your thoughts? 

 48:40
Frank Rich
Yeah, man, that's a great question. I had a woman on my podcast, Jolene Min. You can find her online. She's the pornographic wife. It's like her handle on everything. Why keep talking about the people that I bring on? Because I want to seek out the experts that are solving the problems that I'm not right. I planted my flag in one area. We help men become better men by quitting p*** and rebuilding their lives. I could address these because I've had conversations with others. I can tell any woman out there right now it is not going to be you that fixes your man or husband though. Don't this that you're going to swoop in, you're going to play mother to him and you're going to fix his life. I can also tell you that he's probably not doing it because he doesn't find you attractive. It's not that he's cheating on you, although it gets perceived that way, and I understand that there's a sexual component to it, but I've done enough research and understanding how it hijacks the brain, how the brain is literally responding in the same way that it does to any substance or any stimulus. 

 49:41
Frank Rich
There's a lot of biological or physiological mechanisms that are driving some of these behaviors that have nothing to do with whether or not he looks at you and sees that you're attractive. Now, if there's problems within the relationship that are leading to some of these things, that's outside of my scope of what I would be able to speak to. You probably need to get some help min counseling that you both can agree upon there. I think encouraging the man to maybe hear some of these conversations, that's a tough one, right? Because I think it depends on where he is. I told you about where I was back in 2014. I don't think that there would have been any woman in my life that would have been able to bring something to me because that's where I was. I was proud to be an a******. If that's the guy that's in your life, I'm not here to tell you good luck. 

 50:25
Frank Rich
You're not going to be able to change and transform him, but he's got to be able to see this for what they really are and trying to shame him, guilt him, accuse him of things I don't see being a successful route in Avenue. Now, one thing Jolene talks about a lot, though, is she helps women despite what their husband is doing. I think that there are things that women can do for themselves if they're hurt, if they're dealing with it, if there's things that they need to work upon. Look up and reach out to Jolene. But, yeah, I don't think it's going to be the woman's job to play the mother and try to fix him. I don't think it's a great idea to become the accountability partner, have him check in with you every single day. That's going to put too much stress and pressure on the woman, and it's probably going to cause a lot of fighting and arguments within the relationship as well. 

 51:15
Josh Wilson
Awesome work. Awesome. Let's do this. What questions should I have asked you during this interview that I screwed up and did not ask you? 

 51:25
Frank Rich
Min you literally asked some of the best questions, or at least different questions than I normally ask. So I really do appreciate that. I struggle with this man because me answering this question I see as me coming into this with an agenda, and that's never going to be the case, man. I think he did an incredible job today. Josh, Live, you hit on a lot of points we maybe could have gone into, maybe more like what's happening at the brain level, but sometimes I think that speaks over people anyway. So understand that it's hijacking motivation, understand. That it's having a massive impact on your drive to do things in the world. If you're struggling with finding happiness and joy out of little menial tasks and you're consuming pornography, understand that there's a direct correlation between those two. Live. If you don't get joy by just doing things that bring most people, like happiness, but you're consuming p*** and realize that's a byproduct of that. 

 52:25
Frank Rich
Maybe we could have gone deeper into the brain, but I don't think it was necessary today. This is a really great conversation. You did an amazing job, Josh. 

 52:32
Josh Wilson
Thank you. I received one of the things that you encourage you guys to do is they get together in a group and it just so happened they were in the same town, they went and blew stuff up. Live guns and loud bangs and fire and then meet. I think that there's something too, bringing us together in a community. For guys who want to be a part of your community, connect with you and get some help, to raise their hand and say, I've got an issue, I need some help, and I want Coach Frank to do it. Where can people go to connect with you? 

 53:00
Frank Rich
Yeah, well, you can connect me on Instagram. It's coach Frank Rich. Literally, you can just drop into DMs and I'll respond to every message in there. If you're ready to have a conversation, find me there if you're like. Hey, I want to see more about what this guy's about, maybe consume some more information. YouTube is probably the best place. Coach frank Rich. Once again. And we have a free resource. There's a free ebook that I wrote. It's called the Seven Step Guide to Living Life Without P***. If you're interested in maybe seeing what the process would look like for you, but you're not ready to have a conversation with somebody about it, go check the Seven Sep Guide out. It's at the Sevenstepguide.com. And the word seven is spelled out. Just get the book for free from there. 

 53:41
Josh Wilson
Yeah. Now your bodybuilder, I just want you to see these things without being intimidated. I just want to show you the muscles. I'm 40 years old, I still got of the dad bod. I got a chance in the future to be a competitive bodybuilder. 

 53:56
Frank Rich
If you can do anything you put your mind to, man, I truly believe that. If you want to sure, man, you got a solid base. There was a shape there to. 

 54:11
Josh Wilson
Josh just flexed for those just listening in. I just flexed to a bodybuilder. 

 54:16
Frank Rich
He flexed all twelve inches of those biceps. 

 54:18
Josh Wilson
I did the best I could. So, guys, hey. As always, guys, I love you. Thank you for listening to this podcast show. If you're struggling, reach out to our guests and go, I need help. Be the kind of guy who will reach out to someone and ask for help. Their contact information will be in the show notes below. If you've got some advice to share with other guys, head Shaahin Shaahin Shaahin Cheyene uncensored advice for men quick form and maybe we'll get you on the show to share your advice with other dudes. Till then, we'll talk to you all on the next steps. So see you guys.