"My mother trafficked me as payment for our rent...."
From early childhood and young adulthood, I was sexually abused and exposed to involuntary domestic servitude. My mother trafficked me as payment for our rent. I felt mistrust, rejection, anger, shame, fear, and insecurity.
Growing up I had one book the Bible. Feeling abandoned, the Bible revealed what love was supposed to look and feel like. God's word was my source of strength and hope. Through the grace and healing power of God, I have learned to trust God and share my story. What the enemy intended to use against me become the strength God used to empower me to become a voice of triumph. Despite all the obstacles placed in my path through my journey, my life is a testimony that God can take bag things and turn them around for his glory.
In 2012, I founded Hop-4Freedom to help bring awareness and fight human trafficking. Once a source of shame, my story has become a powerful message of deliverance from suffering in this world. I use my passion to inspire and raise awareness of the plight of human suffering around the world.
Sandra Shin, Jamaican born, mom of three.
Founder of Hope-4freedom
Survivor of human trafficking
Certified at Baptist Health, Domestic Violence and Human Trafficking
Ambassador-Shared Hope, an International Organization on Human Trafficking.
1 (888) 373-7888
National Human Trafficking Hotline
Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/uafm)
Good day, fellows. Welcome to Uncensored Advice for Men. On today's show, we're going to have a conversation about, um, sex trafficking, about human slavery, and, uh, the topic is heavy for me. Even as I describe what we're going to talk about. It's heavy for me, so might as well just dive in. Sandra, welcome the show. Thank you. Yeah. All right. So, Sandra, uh, why don't you tell us a little bit, um, about who you are and what are you working on? My name is Sandra Shannon. Um, born, Jamaican woman living here in Jacksonville, Florida. As a survivor of human trafficking. I started an organization called hopeforfreedom, and that is to help women and children and men as well, who are trafficked to help them to realize that even though we have gone through that, um, demonic situation, we don't have to live like that. There is redemption on the other side. So that's the purpose of why I started that Ministry organization. Got it? Yes. All right, so let's get an idea of the story. Kind of like you said, you survived it. Um, why don't you tell us your story? My story started, um, when I was eight years old. Um, even before that, I was growing up in Jamaica. I've seen my mom every weekend. She comes to visit me because I was growing up with her. Did not know she was my mother didn't know my dad. My dad was living in England. I grew up with my granddad, thinking he was my father. Now, when my mother realized that my dad was coming up from England, she thought he came home with money, not knowing that they had deported it. So he had no money. So she took me from my grandparents at eight years old to go live with her. When she realized no money is there, as we said in Jamaica Hall, it will break loose. So at eight years old, I become what is called a house slave. I had to Cook, clean for a seven family member, including myself. At eleven years old, she bought a house, but she was unable to pay for the house. I was given to the man for three years to have sex with, and that was a payment for the house. So she literally trafficked me to this month for payment for the house for three years, from eleven until I was 13 years old. So that's how my store started, how I got away. I run away when I was 13 years to live with one of her Church sister. And it so happened, I got pregnant there. At 14 years old, I have two children with him. When I was 18 years old, I had my second child. My second child is the one who led to God. And outside of that, my child disobeyed me to go to Church. I didn't have anything to do with Church people because my mom used to go to Church, but he disobeyed me to go to Church, and I had to see what was holding him. And the depth of that is not the fact that he disobeyed me to go to Church. It's the fact that he only had one pair of sneakers. And the soul of the sneaker was coming up and I watched my little baby 14 year old son use needed insurance to solve the sole of the shoe back together to go to Church. So I said, I want to go to see what was at this Church. I was holding my baby. And it so happened that two years after that, I became a Christian. And after that, I was able to forgive my mother, all because of God know the present in my life. And I start reading the scriptures and see who I am, because before that, I didn't know who I was, who I am, who, um, I am. I was able to to forgive her, and she was able to help many others to become a Christian as well. So outside of me going through everything that I have gone through, there is redemption on the other side of my story. And here I am today, living, active and willing to share my story to help so many others. Wow. Okay. I really appreciate you sharing the story with us. Um, how long ago was that? I'm now six to three years old. So that's a long time. Yeah. So I'm terrible at math. Was it like 50s and 60s? I know someone from the audience is going to give me an exact date or something like that. Yeah. I don't have my calculator advocates. So eight years old, um, you were bouncing between grandparents or grandfather who you actually thought was your father, and then your mother who would come visit you, and you didn't know she was your mother when she would visit. So were you living with your grandfather at the time? Yes, I was living with my granddad. Matter of fact, I've been living with him since I was a year. In six months. Okay. I grew up thinking he was my father and his wife was my mother. Wow. So when my mother would come on weekend to visit, I would call her sister Gloria because she called my grandfather Daddy and I called Daddy. So I assume nobody told me. I just assumed she was my big sister. Why do you think nobody told you that that was your mother or that your grandfather was your grandfather? I think one of the reasons, as children, if I knew she was my mom, I would want to go with her whenever she's leaving because it's only natural for a little baby to want to be with their mum. So I think that was one of the reasons. But the fact that, okay, a baby, I understand. But now I'm getting older. I'm now six years old. Seven years old, eight years old. Nobody said she's your mom until she decides to come and take it to live with her. Why not let me know that she's my mother? Yeah. Nobody told me. So your grandfather had you from one and a half to eight years old. What was your life like then, in the 50s or 60s, whenever that was in Jamaica? Uh, what was your life like living with grandfather in that little short space of time? I tell you, he was very harsh with me. But his wife, she was like an angel from Ever. I called her Darling. She was so sweet to me. I had, I think, one of the best education at that young age. I learned to set a proper dining table. When I said proper dining table, I mean, an official dining table, I learned to do that. She taught me to Cook in a little space of time. Whenever she's cooking, she would cut off a little piece of the meat that she's cooking. And she would let me watch her the way she seasoned. And I would season it. And she would let me Cook it on my little Dolly cotton stove. And taste it to make sure it's cooked properly. So she teach me that she was a good sister. I mean, she sold very well. So she would make my Dolly clothes. And at that young age, every weekend, I would look forward to washing my dolls clothes and pressing them. I felt so special. Those little things. So those little things, really, at that young age, was that a little gift to me? But even in those little times, I still was not allowed to play with children. Why not? I still was not allowed. I have no idea. You see, back there, nobody explained anything to you. My grandfather built what I call my cage. He built a fence to the side of the house. It has a little gate and a lock. And he would put me in there to play with all the toys that I have. But I was not able to play with children. And the children, they used to call me all kinds of names. Because I assume they think I feel like I was better than them. Not knowing that I wasn't allowed to play with them. So even though I had a good education at that time. I still have a little darkness. So your grandfather, you called it a cage, right? Yes. I call it a cage because that's how it felt to me. Yeah. Did you guys go to school? How did you interact with other people? Because you weren't allowed to hang out with kids? Only when I went to school, I went to one of the best school. It was a Catholic school. So I went to the Catholic school and the Catholic Church. And the funny thing about that is that none of them never come to Church with me. The Church was just across the street. So they would just cross me over to go to Church and to go to school when it's time to go to school and the nun will cross me over, and that's how I go back and forth. They never go to Church. I don't know why. Yeah. Now, you mentioned your grandfather built a cage for you at the time. Did you feel that it was a cage or looking back. As a child, you're not thinking that this was wrong, but getting older and looking back, it was like a cage. I was just locked in there. And then when he thinks I played enough, then he would come and take me out and bring me the house, and that was it. And when you said he was rough on you. Oh, man, he was really rough. He was rough. I remember once every weekend he works in the countryside, in the parishes, and he would come home on weekend. And I remember every weekend he would come and we would ask him to spell words because, um, there are things that I'm supposed to learn, I'm supposed to know. And I agree with that. He wants the best education for me. But this particular weekend, he called me. I mean, Sandra, come here. And I was so scared, I forget to spell the word Mississippi. And my granddad put me to need two bottlestoppers from 8th until 12th. That was my punishment. Okay, explain what that is. I'm not familiar with the bottle. Stopper from the drink bottle. Oh, the caps. Yes. With the rivets on top. Yes. You had to put your knees on that and say. I had to kneel down on that. For how long? Yeah.
From eight until 12:
00 p.m.. That was my punishment. How old were you? I was about six years old. Oh, my gosh. So, first of all, I am so sorry for what you want. I always tell people, Josh, that my life is very colorful. It's very colorful. There's so many colors to my life. So many colors. You know. Your wife's, your grandfather's wife was a blessing to you. Taught you how to Cook, you how to clean, taught you how to set a proper table, right? Yes. Okay, so this is kind of a side note here, but with a proper table, there's 100 Forks, uh, on the left, and a few knives and spoons and such. Yes. When you're eating. I was told I went to one fancy dinner in my life, but outward, work your way in. Is that right? Yes. Okay, now, my glass, right. They usually have, like, a water glass and a wine glass or something like that. Is that to my right or my left? Because I only left to my left. Yes. Okay. Because I was probably, uh, drinking. My friends, my neighbors, drink. Okay. Got it. All right. So when you would eat right, you would Cook this meal, and was it just you grandfather and his wife at the table? Yeah, just the three of us. At the time, I was the only child in the house. Did you have to be extremely proper? Like, if you put your eggs on the table, did you get smacked? Oh, yes. And I had to eat everything that was on my plate, even if I didn't want it. That was one thing. And if I finished eating, I could not just get up on the table. I would have to say, Can I be excused? And if they say no, I have to just sit there. If they say yes, then I can get up and go. So grandfather was harsh on you. His wife was a blessing to you, clean and such like that. How did she respond when he was rough on you or when he was. He was very quiet. I think she was afraid of him as well, because when he was there, she speak less. She wasn't as bubbly as when, uh, her and myself are together. When he come on a weekend, she was very quiet. So I know she was afraid of him as well, but she didn't say. Yeah, but I knew. And then when your mother came to visit, what was the dynamics there when she came? Honestly, when she comes to visit, I cannot tell you one moment that she and I spent together, she was just there. It's not like she come and she takes me and we sit and, you know, we have time together. It wasn't like that. She was just there. And when she ready to leave, she leaves. That's it. We never spend any time together. And the worst part is, when she took me to live with her, she beat me to call her Mama. She get the strap at me. She stamped me to call her Mama. So you're eight years old. You've grown fond of your grandfather's wife and you're going to school, but you felt like you were living in a cage. Yeah. Now your mom comes and takes you beating you spinning on you telling you to call me Mama. Did you submit to that? Like, did you wind up doing that or did you? Yes, I did. Okay, I did. Yeah, I end up doing that. But I used to run away all the time. Did you? Yeah, I used to run away to go back to Darling. And my mother would come back and get me. How far was the distance between the two? It was a good distance, but I didn't care. I wanted to go back to her. Yes. Are we talking like a mile, 10 miles? We're talking about more than 3 miles. Okay. And as an old kid, you would run there. What is the climate? Not like temperature wise, but was it in Jamaica, uh, in the 50s and 60s? Was it safe for a young kid? Was it dangerous? Oh, no. Back then it was, but then it was very safe. How? It was, um, in my growing up, um, is say, for instance, if you were walking down the street and I passed you and I did not say, Good morning, sir. You could tell my parents and I would get a ripping off my life. Really? Yes. Okay. That's how it was. Yeah. Okay. And people, um, would be protective of you. The one thing that I blame my country for, though, is, for instance, what happened to me because it was a family member inside. They kind of shunned from that. They are afraid to speak up because it's family issue. Yeah. So things like that kind of like, stay out of it, right? Yes. Cool, man. Stay out of it. So this is an important message. Stay out of it. I think that as a guy, we see things, right? Everyone sees things. But this is a proper man. The only perspective I can talk to is from a guy's perspective, because that's what I do. We see stuff and we go, Should I get involved? Should I not? Right. Yeah. Now, up until that point, up into eight, we already hear signs of abuse. Right. Your grandmother was really tough on you. Yeah. And having a caged, forcing you isolation. Yes. There's signs that a kid is going through trouble. Right. You really don't know what's going on? No. Um, did anybody externally, the nuns, the pastor, the father, anybody other go, hey, I think that there's something wrong and try to get involved. No one. Okay. No one. No one get involved. And that's the part that even when I was 13 years old and run away, even to that point, I mean, it's not like ice cream. And of course, crowd came down, but when they realized it was a family, they all left. They still didn't get involved. Mhm. They all left. And I think this is a problem we're having even today. People need to not see things and stay quiet. We need to speak up, man. We need to speak up because our voice. I mean, a lot of times people don't realize how much power we have in our words and our voice. We can save so many people. I tell you why I say that, and I'm jumping ahead of our story a little bit. I did a speaking event at my Church 2018, speaking on human trafficking and teaching my Church brothers and sister the science to look for one of the Church members on her job after that was able to help a young lady from being trafficked. Wow. All because she saw the sign and she said something. So we don't know. We can say we don't have to put ourselves in arms way to help somebody, but we can't. We don't need to stay quiet. We look at history and we look at slavery and we're like, oh, that's evil. And if I were alive when that was going on, I say this all the time. If I was there I would have taken out Hitler. If I was there, I would have fought for freedom. If I were there, I would have whatever. Fill in the blanks. Right. But you're saying that there's a major issue going on today. Right now, that's worse, too. It's even worse than what we had before. Human traffic. Today is our modern day slavery. Well, we have 40 million people in slavery right now through human trafficking. 40 million. When I just started this Ministry, I learned, um, that just in Jacksonville alone, there was 3000 children traffic here in Jacksonville. 3000 children. Children. We're not talking about adults, okay? I hate that I have to ask you these questions, because I don't want to know. I know, but I know we need to talk. Yeah. We need to know. Yeah. Eight, um, years old, your mom scoops you up, beats you, spit on you call me Mama. Call me Mama. You call her Mommy. Right. And then at some point, she gets into financial issues when dad doesn't have money and she says, I'm giving you up for slavery to be a house slave. A servant. A house servant. Right? Uh, yeah. Eight years old. What was her conversation to. What did that look like? Did she just, like, drop you off in the front porch and say, here's the daughter? No, the thing is, she did. And, um, this is. And I'm glad you asked the question, because a lot of people think that's what human traffic is. Human traffic is not just moving from one place to the other. Because I was still in my house. She trafficked me in the house. I didn't move from the house. The man would come there and do whatever he needs to do with me at the house. Wow. I was taking care at eight, um, years old, I was taking care of my brothers and sisters, including my stepdad, my mum and myself. So that's where the labor traffic comes in. Now, at eleven years old, she allowed a man to come there to have sex with me as payment for the house. So she didn't move me out of the house. And a lot of times, that's one of the misconceptions with human trafficking, because people believe that because they hear the word traffic, they think that you are moved from your location. But it doesn't mean that you are moved from your location. It just means that you're sold to this individual. So that's what happened to me. Yeah. All right, so at eight, you're taking care of the house, your family, your parents, or your mother and stepfather, and then seven brothers and sisters. Including that includes the seven brothers and sisters. My parents, my stepfather, my mother, six brothers and sisters and myself make seven. So you're responsible at eight years old. Eight years old to do all of that? What the heck were they doing while you nothing but my stepdad, he works. My mom doesn't. So why you rather than any of your other brothers and sisters. That's it. And you know, each time I look at it, I think it's because my dad came back from England and had no money. And she figured, well, this is payback because what could the eight year will do for that to happen to her? There's got to be some acreage in her for him that plays back on me because she used to curse me and tell me, you're just like you got it in pupil because my dad is a roster and I look just like him. And sometimes she tell me, you're like offpine football. I'm 411 and I'm taller than my father. So he's very short. So she called him Half Pint. Half pint, yes, because he's small. So your dad comes back, no money from England, gets deported Where's he in the midst of all this, he knew nothing. He knew nothing. And the reason why, at eight years old, I didn't understand to tell him anything. But when I get to eleven and I get to 13 and you're going to be surprised to know why. My dad was the only positive force in my life. When I first knew him, I was afraid of him. I was afraid of him because my dad is Raster. And my grandfather taught me that Rasta sacrificed their children. So when I saw my father, that was the first word I asked him. I said, Are you going to sacrifice me? And these were exact words to me. He said, you are my picnic. You're growing. You will live to see. Picni in Jamaica means child. So he was actually saying, you are my child. You are grown. You will live to see. And to this day, my dad was one of the most positive person in my life. My dad, at eleven years old, growing up until today, taught me from the scriptures, if I did anything wrong, my dad told me, it doesn't matter how bad it is, tell me and you will not be punished. My dad taught me to speak truth. I learned from scriptures that things that my dad taught me, I didn't learn in school. And so because of that what Daddy used to do. And I still call him Daddy to this day because he's my Daddy. What he does is every weekend he makes sure that I will come and look for him because I wasn't living with him. But every weekend I would go and spend that with him. And that was one of the most precious time in my entire life outside of my children. You said, was it Rasta? That yeah, he is Rosta, even to the state. Okay, so you said that your perception of Rosta was that they would sacrifice their kids because that's what my grandfather taught. That Raster sacrifice their children. Uh, but when I learn better, Rasters are so peaceful, they are so loving. Because even Bob Marley, I grew up around Bob Marley because my dad plays in Damien and Julien Marley's back. Always around Bob Marley, Mosa Baruca, Bunny, whale, and all of that. And honestly, if they have one banana, the banana is shearing. They're cutting it up in small pieces, and it's passing around the room. And I saw that. I saw that love. They peeled tangerine, and they take off one peg, and they shared with each other. I saw that. I didn't see that amongst my mom and her Christian friends. So I gravitate to roster. My mom thought I was going to be a roster. I gravitate to them until I really learned the truth of God's word. Um, and know that I am creating his image, and I became a Christian. But to this day, if you hurt my dad, I'm sorry for you. I'm going to get you. And I believe it. I absolutely believe it. You love your dad. You're a warrior God. This sucks. It is. It really does. Yes. But, you know, as much as my life has been, I tell people I've never had a child. I don't know what it is to play like a child and be happy like a child. I don't know what it is to do that. And so as an adult, I do that sometimes. But as hard as my life was having my children, I had a great time with my kids. I had a longer time with my dad. And then now I have a greater time with my dad. Yeah. So I find purpose in all these different situations. I find purpose to them. Yeah. So I got choked up, and my eyes started to leak. Someone must be cutting onions in, uh, the office or something, because my eyes are watering. But I got emotional. Um, and I'm having a hard time with this. I have an eight year old daughter and four year old son and a two year old daughter. The thought of someone mistreating my kids hurts me. It's sad. Yes, it is. And because of that, I have to ask more questions, and I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I'm here to answer. All right, so your mom under the banner of Christianity, right? So they were Christians, right? And then you're a modern day Cinderella taking care of everyone. You're the slave inside the household. What did your brothers and sisters, how did they view you? Did they view you as less than did they? I don't even think they hadn't the sense to know who I was. But my brother. I am three years older than before you. Come on the call. My sister and I were talking about it because my sister. We never had a good relationship until just recently, since I'm here in Jacksonville. And we know how that bond where if we don't talk for a day, it's like it's a year. But looking back, I didn't even see them as my brothers and sisters. But my brother was always protective of me, uh, as a little boy. And I just think that God put that in him because I am three years older and I'm still young. So he was three years younger than me. But even my mom, he wasn't afraid to talk up to my mom for me right now, my brother has no teeth because she take a brush and hit his teeth because he was talking to her, because I had this little hand back and she took it from me and give it to my sister. And my brother said, no, that's Sandra. And she told the brush and knock off his feet. So even then, they thought that I needed protecting. Yeah. Even though they were young. And I want to be careful of this, right? Yeah. I want to be careful of judging and the guys in the audience. I want you guys to be careful of judgment, too. Right. Like, we're not the judges. It's not our place. No, we're not. But the questions that I have and I know that there's some anger in my heart about this. So you're working your ass, uh, um, off taking care of the whole family. Eight years old while everybody is your mom's not working and your fellow brothers and sisters and you're providing and taking care of all them, and that wasn't enough. At eleven years old, your mom starts welcoming other grown men. Yeah. Was there a conversation to prepare you, uh, for that, or it was just. No, there wasn't a conversation. Let me tell you, the only conversation. And many in the audience and for yourself. Um, this is going to be a little graphic, but they need to know the truth. Um, the only conversation I had was because at the time, a little girl. Right. I didn't even start Ministry yet. And the first time the, um, person entered me, I was bleeding. And you know what my mom did? She cleaned me up and tells me that I was having my period. That was the only conversation we had. And every time I talk about that part, it hurts. And the reason why that hurts is because I'm 63 years old and I can never regain that innocence that I lost at her time. And to know that was the only conversation she ever had with me. So this day where that is concerned. So the man comes over, pays your mom, goes into the room, locks the door. Eleven years old, you're standing in front of a grown man. Did he force himself? Did he describe what he was going to do? Was it nothing? It was just he didn't say anything. Um, and then I couldn't do anything. I couldn't say anything. But when I get to 13 years old, I said, no more. I am taking no more of this. And I run away. Yeah. Was it other men or was it just the one guy? Just the one person? For years, yes. For three years, and he would come over whenever he would like. Yeah. And stepfather, they knew about it and they would just yeah. Honestly, if I stayed there, I would have gotten pregnant with my stepfather as well. Yeah. From your stepfather, he was abusing you as well? Mhm yeah. It's disgusting. It really is disgusting. Did mother know or what did your stepfather say? Did he say that? This is like. They didn't say anything. When I was 13 years old and I realized, um, what my stepfather was doing to me. And I screamed rape. My mother hit me across my face because crowd was drawn outside the door and telling me that I bring scandal on her after what he was doing to me. Instead of she hit him, she hit me. And that's why I run away. Because in my mind, I'm saying they must plan this. Her and my stepfather, this must be part of their plan. And if I stayed there, I would have gotten pregnant for him. Yeah. Now, from eight to eleven and then to 13. Right. You're locked up in slavery. Like, were you allowed to go to school in Church in those times? Yes, I go to school. Okay. And the weird thing is, I go to school at eleven years old. Every school in Jamaica wears uniform. I go to school without my uniform. And the principal took me to her office to find out why is it I'm not wearing uniform? And you know how I got to wear a uniform? My teacher, she fall in love with me. She would take me home because she lived on the school ground. Let me put on one of her child's uniform. And on my off the school, I would go back into the clothes that my mom, uh, sent me to school in to go home. And that's how I wear uniform for two full years before my mother would buy a uniform for me. I know that I cannot be in school without uniform. Yeah. So you run away at 13, right? How did you run away? It was 600 in the morning when everybody was sleeping. I left. I never looked back. I know this shows specifically for men, but what advice do you have for someone who's in that situation, 13 years old, being trafficked, being abused sexually from a stepfather, from a family member, from a stranger? What advice do you have to that person who's, uh, in the middle of this? And maybe they found this interview somewhere. Uh, do the same thing I do. Because at that age, you cannot retaliate too much. But every little leeway you find, get yourself out of it. Get yourself out. You know, it's not easy, especially when somebody is not looking out for you. Because even though it's a little easier, it's hard. But it's a little easier now because nobody is going to see you and condemn you. There are people out there who are willing to help. I know a situation where this lady saw a young girl at Walmart, and she decided she was not going to stop until she helped this young person, and she was able to help her. So sometimes all we have to do is look for the opportune time, because that's what I did and run away. It was sad that I run away and thinking that the home that I run away to, I was going to get refuge. But I got pregnant for my mother's friend son. But the thing is, in all of that, as bad as that sound and all of that, God was in that, because I am not able to use that story to help somebody else. Yeah, it had to happen to me as bad as it could not happen to any of my other brothers and sisters, because I don't think they could have lived through it. Well, that's terrible, right? It is just because you're strong that it had to happen to you. No, that's terrible. Yeah, it's terrible. It's not fair. But Romans 828, he works for the good of those who love him, who are called by his purpose. And so what my mother, what my stepfather, what that gentleman meant for harm. God is now using it for good. And it's painful. It's painful. But I can now help somebody who is still going through it, not who has gone through it, but who is still going through it to help them to know that there's hope on the other side. When I was growing up, I did not know that I was a human being. I thought that everything that was happening to me, that's what I was created for. My mother told me that I was the best piece of furniture in the house. The best piece of furniture in my mom's house was a bed. And so I thought that's what I was. I didn't know I was luminous until I know my dad. And until I know the scriptures and know who I am. And that's what trafficking does. Shameful. It makes, um, us think that we're not human being. We're not made for anything good. So I want to give them hope, to let them know whether it be a little boy, because they do traffic boys, whether it be a little boy, a little girl, a man or a woman. There is hope. There is hope. We are not what they say we are. I'm nervous, um, about asking questions. Right. Don't be nervous. Yeah. Gosh. I've never thrown out this many disclaimers, and I've interviewed 800 people so far about their story and such. But I'll tell you why I'm nervous about this is, um. I want to disarm people. And I just pray that mhm God uses this interview for good and not. Yeah, uh, he will. So the question I have is, how does a person who wants to hurt kids, like, even find people's like your parents who would offer their kids to them. I can't even fathom. Like, there must be like this. There are signs. I'm sure there are signs that you could share with us about people who are trafficking, people who are being trafficked, people who are selling or selling, um, uncover this. And what could we look out for so that we can be aware and maybe protect, maybe step in. I'm sure we'll go into other ways where we could help in the future. Before I give you the science, I would say this human traffic, uh, is $150,000,000,000 industry, right. Since COVID of 2019, that figures doubled. And the reason for that is because a lot of children are doing school online, and the predators use that to their disadvantage. A lot of parents are not able to work. Well, things are opening up now. It's a little better. But for those who cannot are willing to sell their children, just like what my mom did to me. 35% of human traffic victims are sold by a family member. 35%. That's too many. That's evil. And the signs we can look for, if you know your next door neighbor and, you know your next door neighbor could not or cannot afford certain things for that child. Like, for instance, expensive outfit. The, uh, parents cannot afford to get the child nails done and hair done. And all of a sudden, this child, you see this child with these expensive outfits, an expensive bag, the hair done, the nails done. That's a clear sign. Another sign is the friends that they used to have. They no longer want to hang around with their peers. They're now having older friends, older boyfriend. That's a sign. If, say, for instance, your child come home and say to you, say, for instance, her friend name is Sandra. And she come, um, home. And she said, Daddy, Sandra asked me to cover for her today at school. That's a sign because she's now wanting to cut school to go somewhere. What these furniture does, too. Because a lot of times, people think that human traffic victims are kidnapped. A lot of times, they are not the predators. They locate at churches, schools, restaurants, park. Anywhere teens and young children are located, the predators go the restaurant. Um, there was a situation where this young girl, she has this regular client. He would come in, and he was nice to her. And out of conversation, one day, he start asking her, where your mom work? Uh, where your dad work? And she's just this innocent conversation. She's answering the question, how much do you make on this job? And she's answering, and he said, I know the job that you can make twice as much in so many hours. And, of course, because she's now in high school and she wants to do College subject, she goes off with him, which was one of the biggest mistakes she made. But thank God she was rescued before she got traffic, but this is how they do work. And she believes it. And she went up with him. If somebody didn't step in to find out, how is he gonna be able to pay you this when he's coming to your restaurant every single day and he's not even able to tip you? That person was smart enough to ask those questions. So sometimes we, uh, just got to be vigilant and ask some outside questions. Yeah. Go ahead. Let's say nobody stepped in. So the young lady waited. She would have been gone 1617 years old, disappeared at that point. That's a kidnap. She goes, where did they go? Here in the United States, right? Yeah. So she just disappears and she comes. She just disappears. And a lot of times, sometimes you don't see them again. But there are incidents where it could be your next door neighbor, it could be happening next door in your neighborhood, and you don't know. It's one of those things that are hidden in plain sight. So that's why we have to open our eyes and see. And if we see something, there's an offline number that we can call without giving our information. And I'll give you that number. That number is 188-837-3788. And you don't have to give your information. Just say what you see and describe the situation. It may not be a traffic situation, but we will not know the officer, whoever we give this, because this is our human traffic online. Or call your local Sheriff's office, and they will go on the situation. So if it's an emergency. Right. You're seeing someone actively being kidnapped. You call nine description, snap a picture video. If it's something that you perceive as this might be a threat, but I don't know. Outline is a good way to do it. Right. Okay. Got it? Yes. All right, so some signs and some signs and the other signs again. The other sign, again, to look for, because what the traffickers do us is their brand, their clients. So barcode the tattoo, a Crown with the name in it, and it's mostly at the back, um, of the neck or under the harm. Yes. And we know we see people with tattoos, so that one is even hard to identify. But if you see a young person with a barcode on the, uh, back of, um, the neck, that's a clear sign, because what they do, they branded. So another trafficker would not go with that person. That person is owned by somebody. So they brand them as if they're Castle, they own them. Wow. So someone steals them, kidnaps them, tattoos their brand on them. Which is a bar code or something like that. Yeah. Or, uh, the person's name or the trafficker initial. Yeah. Holy Moly. And that just means stay away. Yes. Right. What signs can you look out for? Against predators, against people who are doing the trafficking? Bus stops, trucks that are parking. Truck stops for many hours, anybody is just looking, um, just hanging around where young children, um, are. It is sad, but you have to be suspicious of those kind of people these days. And it should not, uh, be that way because that may be an innocent person, but we cannot know. I'll give you a personal example. And this is a friend of mine. Two years ago, her three year old was in the park playing. And she said normally when the child is playing in the park, she wouldn't pay it any mine, because it's a challenge. She's playing. But she said this one particular day, she noticed a van that was parked on the other side of the park with a passenger door open. And there's a little eight year old boy playing in the park. And so she's watching him coming closer to her little three year old. And he finally came up to the little girl and he start playing with her, but he's playing that game that says tap you are it kind of thing. And he runs and then the little baby run after him, but he's running to the public restroom. And she said when they go to the restroom, she herself ran in. Now, if she hadn't done that, her little three year old would have been gone because the van drove up to the other side of the restroom, which had an open door on the other side. Oh, my God. That 80 year old child was trafficked. And he's now using that child to get other children. Yeah. And then. Right. So women and children are typically a little less threatening than a man. Right. You see a man playing on a playground unless it's with his kids. Right. You're like that's suspicious. Yes. So they use children. What about other women? Women as well. And women are doing trafficking, too, because it was my mother who trafficked me. Yeah. So they have a name for the women that they use. They call them their bottom bitch. The bottom. Yes. They call them their bottom. Yes. So they use them to lurk all the girls, and they are the ones that they use to control the girls while they're seeking other girls. Wow. So for human trafficking, is it all about sex? It's more than that. It's three parts. It's about sex. It's about labor. Uh, and thank God this is not happening in the United States. But outside of the United States, they have what is called organ donor, where they traffic them to get their August, and they sell their August. So we in the States, we are faced with the labor side of it and the sex side of it. Now, the labor side of it is not getting enough attention, and I think that needs to address as well. They're more focused on the six side of it, but we face both sides in the States. Now. How are they measuring? You said that this is like 100 million or billion. How do they even, um, estimate those numbers? Because of they are setting a child for $300, uh, per hour, um, some $1,000 per hour. And so that's how they really estimate the cost. All right, so for the dudes in the audience, what advice do you have for guys in the audience who are listening into this interview? Like, what are your thoughts? What I would say to men in the audience is to step up, be who God created you to be for us women. Because what men are to realize is that we come from you. When God created man, he said man was alone. So he wanted to help me take a rip from you and make us. So we are part of you, whether you want to believe it or not. We are the soft side of you, put it that way. So we need to be cherished by you, not to be abused by you. We need to be taken care of by you. One trafficker looked at one of the young girl that he was finished with and told her, you look just like my granddaughter. Come on now. And a lot of times, these men that are doing this, they have a family, they're married, they have a family home. So treat us with the respect that we deserve. And remember that you too, was born by a woman. You come from a woman, so be respectful of us. I got the opportunity to interview five prisoners because I go into prisons, and I was able to share my story. And two of them began to cry. And I asked the first one, why was he crying? And he said, the reason why the tear was coming down is because I shared my story. And he felt as a peach traffic. And I asked him if I could pray for him. And I pray for him because I told him, I said, what you can do, you're never going to come out of prison not because of the traffic situation, but because of our drug situation. Uh, you now can make a better person for those in prison. You can help somebody who's coming out to come out and live a better life. But you know what the other young man tells me, and I believe this. He is in prison, and he's serving multiple life person. He'll never come out and ask him why. He said when he was four years old, his father put him through the neighbor window and have him go in and open the door. And the father went in and robbed. When he was eleven years old, he did the first drug run for his father. When he was 13 years old, the father put a gun in his hand and tell him who to kill. So these are some of the fathers that we have out there. And these are the fathers that I'm very upset with, and I'm very annoyed with. And I'm saying, step up. Um, be the father that God created to be. Teach your voice to be made. Not murderers, not drug dealers, and definitely not rapers. Teach them to be respectful men, first to themselves and then to others. That's what I would say to the men missing. Right, Sandra? That's so good, guys. Um, we have a lot of responsibility being a dude, Sandra, for guys in the audience, mhm that want to help, want to support your mission. Um, want to figure out what they can actually do. Maybe in their mind, they're going, well, what could I do? I'm not a vigilante. I'm not Batman. I'm not going around right. And rescue people. So what can us guys do to help? We could have another conversation like this. Again, I would love to do that, but my Organization for Freedom, I am just now able to be, um, able to start a 501 receipt. And I would love for when I start that's for men to go on and donate. Because one of my goal is to travel the four corners of the world and to speak out of human trafficking. And outside of that, just open our eyes. Open our eyes, man. And whatever you see, say something. Do something. Stop it. And start at home. Start at home and teach your children. Speak to them about human trafficking. Because a lot of times, parents think that they cannot. But, dad, you can't talk to your son. Let them know what to do and what not to do, how to be and how not to be where young girls are concerned. Be respectful. It can start from there. Because one thing I know for sure, if there is no product on the shelves, we have nothing to sell. And so if we come back using trafficking, we won't have nothing to sell. So we can start with this little group of men that are listening to me now. Just start within yourself. Be respectful to your own self. Tell yourself you cannot do this. And teach your boys and your daughters how to live, you know? Yeah. And your website, Hope for Freedom. Is hope.org, but it is now under reconstruction. Okay. But it's spelled out F-O-R-F-O-U-R. No, it's Cole. And the number four, Freedom.org. Got it. Yeah. And we'll include that contact information. And the hotline number, 188-837-3788 is the hotline number. If you have questions about this, if you have insights or tips, this is the number that you could call if you feel that you want to get involved or they can call me. Uh, yeah. Okay. Sandra, thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing, um, your story, your colorful story. I'm so thankful for you. There's so many, uh, other questions that we have, and we'll probably need to do it on another interview. Yes. As part one, I just want to say thank you for what you're doing. I think bringing Hope for other people and helping other people through the pain that you suffered is an amazing mission and I'm grateful for you. Thank you fellow dudes in the audience um, my request as always reach out to our guests and say thank you for uh, being on the show. If what they say inspires you or you want to somehow get involved with any one of our guests their contact information is in the show notes. So just go to the show notes or you could always head on over to uncensored adviceformed.com. Fill out a quick form. You could ask some questions like, hey I'd like to connection or I'm going through this or whatever or maybe have you got eyes? Come on the show next, uh, that's, uh, uncensored advice for Men.com guys. I appreciate, uh, you love you. The show is for you. We'll talk to you all on the next episode. Bye.