May 26, 2022

A Guide To Healthy Conflict with Paul Martin


LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT AND TRAINING PROFESSIONAL
With over 25 years’ experience in maximizing performance in the areas of Business Development, Sales, Marketing, 
and Operations through behavioral neuroscience.

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Transcript

Josh
 All right, fellows. Welcome back to uncensored advice for men. This show is for you guys have questions about life and Sachs and relationships about business influence conflict. What I do is I take these questions that you guys have in that I have. I go out and I find people who could talk about those subjects and then report back into we've interviewed pastors, porn stars and kind of everything under the sun to kind of give you guys just an uncensored look at different topics and subjects. Some of them are really a taboo, but on today's show, we're going to have a conversation with Paul Martin. We're going to talk about what his business does and what he does within a business relationships in the workplace. So Paul, welcome to the show, man. 


 Paul
 Thanks, Josh. Appreciate it. 


 Josh
 Yeah. All right. Why don't you give us an overview of what you're up to and who you are? 


 Paul
 Sure. Well, what my organization does, I work with a company called velocity leadership consulting. What we have is a number of different coaches who specialize in corporate leadership development and also behavioral neuroscience. What we do is we link the traditional leadership development that a lot of companies offer with behavioral neuroscience to kind of get at the root cause of where people are struggling. If someone is, let's say shy in a meeting and they don't like to talk, they'll go through leadership development and there'll be told it's okay to speak your mind and bill explain the benefits of it. There's something in that person's subconscious that is not allowing them to do that. What our coaches do is we w we look at that trigger point to find out, well, why are you, so why are you not willing to share with the group? Or why do you feel intimidated in front of other people? 


 Paul
 Procrastination is another big one that we deal a lot with, why do people procrastinate? Why do people show up late for meetings? And it's, it's about looking at not just the habits. It's looking at the behavioral patterns that are manifested by these habits. 


 Josh
 Got it. Behavioral patterns kind of explained some other ones. You said shyness, maybe some procrastination, maybe some poor habits. What other behavioral patterns might we see in our lives? Right? We can talk about the workplace, but we could also talk about in the lives of men, right? So sure. I am a professional dude. I've been at it for 40 years, but I've got some bad habits. I've got some bad behavioral patterns that I'm sure we could go to uncover. What have you guys seen of these kinds of patterns? 


 Paul
 Well, we've, I I've been involved with people. Who've had habits like picking their nails, biting their nails, clench, jaws, getting over reacting to what would normally be or what someone else would view as a low stress situation. And it becomes a high stress situation. Those are all the behavioral patterns that manifest into habits like picking nails or overreacting or yelling at a, a spouse or a boss or a subordinate. Those are all those, the habits that the behavioral pattern can identify. And really what a behavioral pattern is. This, that the conscious mind sets a goal. The conscious mind says, I want to do this, right? You've got the conscious mind, says, I want to go do this. And then something happens. It happens in the unconscious where there's a trigger point and the trigger point makes that the conscious mind go somewhere else. So, as an example, I like to give is that if anyone's ever written on a trail horse for the first time you get on the horse, where you want to go and you're pulling and yanking that horse and the horse is going off the path, the horse is going in and munching on a Bush and, and going off into the forest. 


 Paul
 You're just trying to wrestle with that horse. Well, the conscious and unconscious mind act in a very similar way where the conscious mind sees the goal. They see what it needs to get done. The unconscious mind is going in a lot of different directions. The, so the key is to figure out where that trigger was, what was it that caused the conscious mind to take the unconscious mind, to take over from the conscious mind and to, to go off in a different direction. And that's where we have habits. That's where we have unproductive conflict. That's where we have things that we wish we didn't have. We wish we didn't have in our lives. 


 Josh
 Okay. Your group kind of walks into an organization and you can kind of help people walk through breaking bad habits, right? We'll, we'll call it, behavioral neuroscience, and you'll, you guys have the ability to maybe help people break some bad habits and maybe even retrain the subconscious. Is that what I'm hearing correctly? 


 Paul
 Yes. Well, we really recognize what it is. If someone feels very stressed at work, well, there's a lot of stress techniques that people use, whether it's, meditation or, or, aroma therapy or yoga, and those are all, those are all great things. Our, our company really focuses on the unconscious mind to look at, tell me about the last time you felt stressed at work. They'll tell you a story and they'll say, well, I was going into a meeting with my boss and a few other people who else was in the meeting. They'll start to tell you about the people. Based on the language that they use and explaining the situation, our coaches can uncover where the real root problem is. That's a technique called neuro-linguistic programming or NLP for short. Really it's kind of the way that our unconscious and subconscious minds tell stories to our conscious minds that we can identify and say, this person is having an issue, maybe not with their boss, but with someone else who's in the meeting. 


 Paul
 It may be for something unrelated that they don't recognize. It may, because maybe this person is a very loud person. They had an experience with a very loud person as a kid. They weren't treated very well by this person who spoke very loudly as a kid. There was so stating just the volume of this person's voice to their feeling like they felt when they were a kid and they were being bullied when they were in, third or fourth grade. Once you can get down and identify that, then you can control it. That person who's reacting, they're not fighting the reaction. They just realized what the reaction is from, and they're able to handle it better. That's one example of something that these techniques can do. 


 Josh
 Have you seen the show? Billions? 


 Paul
 Yes. 


 Josh
 Jack's capital. Are you guys similar to like a windy roads where you come in and you tune up the workplace and the you've got these hedge fund managers and they need to go sell more, produce more, and you guys, retweak their brain and then out, they go and sell more. 


 Paul
 The CEO, founder of the company, KAren Brown, I I've made that analogy with her a few times. There are she's, I've called her Wendy on occasion, but yes, it's exactly that it's really keeping people who under high stress have to make quick decisions and help keep help maximizing their performance. Now, there is some things that, Wendy did on billions, which, I'm not going to say that we do here at velocity, but it's the same. It's the exact same concept. 


 Josh
 Yeah. All right. Super cool. All right. So I'm starting to see the picture. You mentioned some high stress jobs where people need to perform well, give me some examples of high stress jobs, 


 Paul
 Well, air traffic controllers, or people that we've worked with pilots that we've worked with a lot recently, we're seeing a increase in business from banking and healthcare, which right now are our two largest client industries, just because of not only the nature of their business, but of all the changes that have taken place. In healthcare, it's obvious, we've, we're in year, two and a half of a 15 day pandemic. Healthcare has been turned upside down healthcare. They're finding, they're finding it's harder and harder to get people to work in healthcare. It's a tough job. It's a stressful job. We're seeing healthcare become one of our larger industries and banking for similar reasons. You have the workforce which has gone down considerably and banks and other organizations. They have to make what I call battlefield promotions, where they're moving up people into leadership positions who aren't ready yet. 


 Paul
 What's happening is that's causing stress for everyone. So, you've got these teams of banks, you've got these teams of healthcare workers. You've got these teams of, even working industrial or manufacturing or technology or communication. They're struggling because they're forced to make these promotions with people who did, who were high potential, but there were individual contributors. There's a big difference between taking someone who's great at what they do alone and giving them a team to perform the same way. That's where my group comes in and helps, successors take the range. 


 Josh
 Yeah. So this is interesting. Why, why would a company reach out to you guys? Like what pain points are they having, where they, and then they type into Google or whatever, and then it spits out, Hey, you should have a conversation with Paul and Karen, right? Like, how does that typically happen? 


 Paul
 It happens in a number of different ways. There, there is some organizations that have ongoing leadership training that they'll do it for maybe a couple of years, they'll stop it, realize it worked. There's some organizations that have as part of their culture, and sometimes the last coach didn't work out for some reason, or maybe they weren't really happy with the other culture. Maybe the other coach, doesn't do the type of work that we do. There's some people who've already embraced that methodology of leadership development on a regular basis. There are some that have of, or just like billions, where someone's on staff, who is a, whether they're a licensed psychologist or they're, they're a leadership coach or something like that. That's their job, and you see a lot of that where people are moving away from the title of human resources, to chief people, officer, right, or chief talent officer or chief leadership development officer, you start to see more of that in, in corporations. 


 Paul
 Then, and, and in all honesty, there are some organizations that reach out to us because someone will take on a position, usually an operations or human resource, and they'll realize that the teams have trouble and they need to sell this type of work that we do to their superiors. The pro the challenge with some of them are, is that the superiors are the ones that need to work. We kind of come in and say, all right, well, we're going to train your teams. As in addition to that, in addition to train your teams, we'd like to help you let's coach you also, because our effectiveness increases dramatically when the entire company is involved. You can, you can get a team one page, but unless their bosses know what's going on, it's just more of a challenge. So that's kind of what we see. 


 Josh
 All right, got it. Got it. Let's, let's go through some, maybe some examples for guys, right? We talk about maybe breaking some bad habits, retraining, subconscious, you guys, you and your coaches, you guys can listen and find out some things that are maybe some behavioral patterns that you need to change in all the way from leadership to, the person sweeping the street. You said you typically work in high stress jobs, like healthcare banking, air, traffic controllers, that kind of stuff. You guys can do stuff like neuro-linguistic programming, right? That's kind of the, what I heard as, as the direction of where we could take this conversation. Let's, let's take a look at guys, right? What are some things that you think that I may be struggling with, or that we could have a conversation with, or maybe someone in the audience is struggling with that maybe we can do a few tweaks here based on some of the science you guys have learned, or some, maybe neuro-linguistic programming that maybe we could tweak that unconscious horse to stay on path. 


 Josh
 Right. Can you think of any examples that we can maybe walk through together? 


 Paul
 Yeah. Well, I'll give you a real per personal example. So one of the things that Dr. Elias Porter, who's one of the founders of this type of methodology. He, he has a number of different principles. One is that everyone has a different motivational value system, which is comprised of three different levels. It's either people process and performance, and it's some combination thereof, no one is a hundred percent people and no one is a hundred percent performance. It's some combination thereof. What he said was in conflict, people go through a path and the path does not necessarily mean it's where you started from. It's just a path through all of those phases. Now, myself, I am a blue red, which basically means I'm a people performance person. Okay. That's where I operate when everything is going great. I am very people, performance oriented. However, my conflict path is very different. 


 Paul
 My conflict path is I immediately go to process. Okay. Just analyze. I go into conflict, I immediately want to analyze the hell out of a problem. Okay. I need to understand it. I need to know why it happened. I need to understand how we get out of it and how not, how did it's not going to happen again? Okay. I spend a lot of time and energy there. I go into red, which is basically performance or cert. I go, look, we're analyzing it to death. W this is what we need to do now. Then my last one is people. I'm like, you know what? I don't care, whatever I'm done. I have no more energy when I get to that level. All right. It's not uncommon to have that path, but everyone has a different path. Okay. My wife, on the other hand, she has a different path. 


 Paul
 Now she's very blue. She's very personal. She's, she's always thinking about people. And, and, and that's her thing in her conflict path is to stay in blue for a long period of time, which you would think would be good. The diff the problem is that when I'm analyzed mode, when I'm in conflict, and I'm trying to figure something out, her knee jerk reaction, because she's blue is to try to make me feel better by telling me it's going to be okay by telling me not to worry about it, by saying, everything's going to be fine. Why do you care? Relax. Everything is fine. That is a conflict, because I'm in a different motivational value system during that time than she is. She wants to try to make me feel better, nothing wrong with that, but I'm not there yet. In fact, I'm not going to be there for a while. 


 Paul
 Okay. I'm not going to get to the point where I can feel okay until I go through another phase of the conflict. It escalates because then her second path is process. By the time she gets there, I'm already in the red. At the end, we're both in the red. And we're both asserting butting heads. Okay. When we started doing this work together and we started to, I started to work with the velocity and the coaches there, and my wife and I had our motivational value systems and our conflict paths all mapped out. We, we it's like a joke between us. Now. We say, let's, I'm analyzed, you're in a accommodate. We got to come together because this is, and we're able to deal with conflict a lot better once you understand how people deal with conflict, the better off you are. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Yeah. Super cool. I like this idea of this conflict path, because, in the world of deal-making, in the world of just having relationships, us guys, conflict is something that probably happens a lot for me. Most of the conflict that I ensue in my world is through, is with my kids. To be honest, I have nine, five and a two. I need you to pick up your toys. No. Or why, or ignore right. Or go to bed for the final time, eight o'clock bedtime. Right. How could I, what are some steps that I can do to help understand my conflict path? And maybe even with kids, right? Like I'm trying to influence and lead them and love them. Right. I don't want to have conflict with them. What are some things that you could teach us about this conflict path and applying that to kids? 


 Paul
 Yeah. You know, w with kids, it's interesting. I, I would say that I w I use this technique a lot with, with my kids. Not as much as I should, but I do. This is a way to influence people is you can tell someone to do something. Now, one of the things that I find fascinating is that people don't understand when someone tells them how to feel, why they react poorly to that. If I say to you, Josh, I don't want you to be offended by what I'm about to say, your knee-jerk reaction is, well, what are you going to say? If I say, don't take this the wrong way. I already know you're going to take it the wrong way. Right? We say things, just because we've communicated absolutely perfectly doesn't mean we're going to get the same reaction. Communication is the response you get. 


 Paul
 It's not how great you said it. And that's true in relationships, business. And especially with kids. One of the things that I have found that works, and it works with a lot of people. That rather than saying, rather than trying to justify something, rather than trying to tell them something, I always say it would mean a lot to me. If you could do this, or, Hey buddy, can you do me a favor? People can't say no to that. People can't say no with, can you do me a favor? Or can you help me out? It would mean a lot to me. If you did this, we don't embrace that a lot. I don't, I don't think not a lot of people do that. I I've seen a lot of really shrewd leaders employ that strategy, with, Hey, listen, what would be great? I would really appreciate it. 


 Paul
 If, if we could just come together and figure this out, rather than saying, Hey, this is your ass on the line, buddy. You better get it done. Well, guess what? You're going to find. You have a lot more success by asking for a favor or by letting them know that you appreciate what you're about to do. You know? It's, it, it's kind of like that. I'll tell you a real quick story about my son, my son was going to, when he was younger, he got into this summer talent program through duke university that he wanted to get into when he was a kid. He took the act and sat and did really well. He got in, but then he decided that he wasn't going to go. He wasn't gonna give up his summer and take this college prep course. He just, he just didn't want to do it. 


 Paul
 Well, my wife lost her mind. You've got to take this course. We studied for the sat. You did this, you did she's down. I'm going to take away your X-Box and your PlayStation and the door off your bedroom. It just, all the frets and everything else and screamed at. And that was traveling at the time. I got back and my wife, she said, well, you're going to have to kill him. You got to kill him. And he got into this thing. He's not going to go. You're going to have to kill him. I said, well, I'll kill him after dinner. We sat down and didn't say a word. And then after dinner, we're talking whatever. And my wife keeps nudging. Me, said, what are you going to, when are you going to kill him? I said, I'm not going to kill him. Just give me a chance. 


 Paul
 So then he's marching up to bed. He says, Hey dad, did mom tell you they got into that program? I said, yeah. And he says, I'm not going. I said, no, listen, my opinion is that you're gonna make a lot of mistakes in life and you're going to be an adult. If you want this to be your first one, I think it's relatively benign. If you want this to be your first big mistake that I could say about it, the next morning he was filling out all the paperwork for the thing, because I gave him the responsibility. I wasn't going to take the responsibility to discipline him into doing something he didn't want to do. I gave it back to him. I said, this responsibility is yours. If you want to make a mistake, you go right ahead. That terrifies kids, because now it's not like, my dad's giving me a hard time though. 


 Paul
 They're gonna take away the X-Box. They're probably going to give it back. It was an amount of responsibility, hats. With kids, I've always found that's, that's kind of a good way to handle it. At least from my, from where I am now, I'm not for the record. I'm not a child psychologist. I don't claim to be one, but in my studies of behavioral neuroscience and how people really react to language and knowing neuro-linguistic programming, those are the things I have always found successful. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Super cool. I appreciate you sharing that. It seems to me and I'm learning to be a good dad. I'm trying, I'm, I'm putting in an incredible amount of work into it, but I find that I, I I've revert my conflict path is threaten take away s**t. Right. And then guilt and shame. Right. She's like, dad's working all this time and I'm now folding laundry and this and that. I like this idea of getting, helping them see, I, it wouldn't mean a lot to me, buddy, if you could help with this. Yeah. Right. Because I even bribed them, right. Like, Hey, I'll pay you money. If you help me, pick up sticks in the yard or this or that. Yeah. So this is helpful, man. My conflict path with my kids usually reverts to, raising my voice, threatening to take away stuff, corporal punishment, right? 


 Josh
 Like Freak out freak. So, all right. Let me ask you this with neuro-linguistic programming. I heard it back in the day with Tony Robbins, he talks about a record going on a record player. Like this is how our brain is wired. Neuro-linguistic programming is like scratching the record and reap, creating a new pathway. Right? If we have this constant record, that's playing in our brain, this happens, a trigger happens. I act this way neuro-linguistic program is changing the way the record is played. Do I have that understanding correctly? 


 Paul
 Yes. However, it's not complete. The way that neuro-linguistic programming is it's the same type of analogy it's like updating your operating system. Okay. It, it is like scratching around. It's basically changing the, not what you think, but the way you think about things, one of the things that I, I tell clients a lot. I said, look, cause they've had problems with other leadership development. People in the past is healthcare. You've got HIPAA and in banks, you've got the sec, you've got a lot of regulations in the last thing a leadership coach wants to do is say, oh, well you have to fire that person. You have to make this decision. I don't think that client is worth it. That's the last thing you want to do. What new linguistic programming does is exactly that, what it does is it kind of trains you how to think about things, ? 


 Paul
 Well, let's look at this from in a different way. Let's try to look at this from a number of different things, whether it's conflict path or the language that's being used or something like that. One of the interesting things is when, in negotiation training and one of the new linguistic programming techniques is looking at some modalities in the way people use language. If I'm talking to someone and someone says, look, I need you to see this. Do you see what I'm saying? Do you see this, look at this, right? That's a visual submodality. If I respond by saying, I need you to listen to me, are you hearing me okay, I'm not going to get through to that person. Why? Because they are looking at things through their eyes and I'm trying to get them to change that. Some of the things in NLP is get you to identify those things. 


 Paul
 That's some of the programming that changes, and some of the things that we tell ourselves, basically the stories that we tell ourselves, our unconscious mind gets a lot more information than our conscious mind. Our conscious mind processes, information, extraordinarily slow. We're getting a percent of what actual reality is. Everything else is going to the unconscious mind. If you've ever met someone that lives in their own reality, you're right. Cause everyone lives in their own reality. We're only seen about a percent of it. The minute that you understand that the minute that you look at and say, well, where's this person coming from? What do they see that I don't, what is, what is, what's the modalities? Are they using? What, what does your motivational value system, where are they coming from rather than just going, oh, this person's an idiot or they're wrong. That's where unhealthy conflict occurs because you got two people who are looking at the same tree, drawing it from different angles. 


 Paul
 They're both screaming at each other about the squirrel that only one person can see. That's kind of what NLP brings to the table. It gives you a kind of a different way of looking at how people communicate. Also looking at body language, nonverbal cues, facial expressions, tonality, and the way people talk. There's a lot of stuff going on in the subconscious unconscious mind that we take for granted. No one ever thinks about tying your shoe in the morning. How long did it take you to learn how to do that? It took you a long time to learn how to tie your shoe. Now, no one thinks about it driving a car. No one's ever been given an instruction manual. If you've driven, if you rent a car at Hertz or wherever, well, it's a different car than the one you drive, but you've already, you already know how to do that. 


 Paul
 Well, that's your unconscious mind telling you, I've got this. I know how to do this. You drive it at home and you don't know how you got home. You're listening to music, draining out. Next thing you're pulling in, you forgot that was your unconscious mind taking over. Those are the things that, the behavioral neuroscience and NLP kind of dives into . 


 Josh
 So, running a team and having people that I'm responsible for with my companies. There's, there's this thought that one, you could just, fire someone or you can, help them. You can promote them to customer or whatever, but you guys have another option, right? Maybe we can work with them to some change, some behaviors of key leadership or key principles within the business, right? When it comes to reprogramming, maybe a team, maybe a business partner. I, and this is not the case right now. I get along really well with them. Let's just say, we're work always at odds with each other. We bring you guys in and we want you guys to help us have a healthy, what did you say earlier? Healthy conflict, right? What does healthy conflict look like between two dudes? 


 Paul
 Healthy conflict between two dudes would really look like understanding, not agreeing. Okay. It's not about agreement. It's about understanding, and then getting to the point of when you both understand where each other are coming from, you may still disagree, but you can work on it from a different perspective. If I want to have, if I'm working with a team of my friends and they say, I think we should do this. And I go, oh, that's, that's catastrophic. We can't do that. I said, well, you need to do this and that. The other person says, no, you're wrong. That's catastrophic. We talk about how wrong each other is. We're not, that's not that's nonproductive conflict. Okay. My first question is, I don't know that I agree yet. I want to know why I want to understand why you feel the way you feel about that. What makes you say that? 


 Paul
 Tell me, tell me where you're coming from. Okay. You starting to get kind of a through, because what you may find is that both of you are fighting for the exact same goal and more often than not your right conflict. Isn't about going off in different directions. It's, it's going the same direction, but just about which route you're going to take, right? Someone may say, well, I want to take this route. Well, that's a longer route. Yeah. But it's a safe route. Well, we're going to have to go through this and this. Yes. But we're prepared for those things. Why do you want to go through that road? Well, it's shorter. It's got more risk, but I think that we can mitigate this risk by this. Now you can start to have productive conversations and try to mitigate the risks that both of you have without talking about why you disagree. 


 Paul
 You talk about, here are the points we agree with, right? We agree on these things. Get to common ground. That's something, Tony Robbins and any psychologist tells you. You talk about where are the things that we're not a hundred percent walk, step on. Let's talk about those. And they're usually minor things. And those are easy. Those are easier to overcome, but like any relationship, any business relationship, any relationship with a partner, you may get to a roadblock where you just can't get past it. At least, you know where it is. And at least you tried, you know? And, and I find a lot of conflict, no one ever gets to that point. They give up long before they've actually figured out what the root cause of the problem was. That's my advice to two guys to have productive conflict, whether it's at work or with a spouse, with friends or business partners, when there's conflict, ask what makes you say that? 


 Paul
 Tell me why? Because I don't know that I agree. And don't say that you agree. Don't say I understand what you're. I agree with you. I agree with you. If you don't, if you don't agree, don't say you agree. Say, I want to understand that's a much better way to approach a problem. I want to understand more about that. You said something pretty important. I respect your opinion, but I don't know that I, I agree with you, but I need to understand where you're coming from. Explain to me why you feel that way. That would be my advice for men dealing with, conflict. 


 Josh
 I like that is, what makes you say that, that is, that gives the person the ability to go on and explain rather than being defensive, like, Hey, I'd like to understand what makes you say that, right? That, that seems super non-threatening. That's such a great way to keep the conversation going to really undercover what the root cause of the conflict or the frustration is. 


 Paul
 And, and, Josh that's, that is under the assumption that you actually have rapport with that person, because that's already something that you can ask that question. A lot of times, they won't tell you a lot of times they'll have conflict. You won't know about it. That's the most dangerous. That's where nonverbal cues kind of come in. Okay. Nonverbal cues would be a raised eyebrow or a shift in a chair or a different they're using a different volume or different tempo in their voice. That's when someone who's skilled at it can look at and say, I don't, you don't seem comfortable with what happened. Not that you're not comfortable, but you seem like you're uncomfortable or something that, Chris FOSS from black Swan would say it seems something just crossed your mind. That's a great one. That's a great one. Because then it forces people to identify the conflict. 


 Paul
 Not a lot of people will say, I disagree with you. I think we should do this. Some people will, but that means you've already got rapport. A lot of people are just going to sit there and silencing on, oh, this guy's an idiot. If you can say, wait a minute, Steve, it looks like something crossed your mind. You don't look comfortable with that. Can you tell me why? What is it that makes you uncomfortable with decision? So, so it's, it's identifying those things. It's identifying when you have conflict. A lot of times it's easy. They say disagree. A lot of times, it isn't, that's when the nonverbal cues kind of come in, 


 Josh
 Got it. During this interview, we've discussed some really great ways in the workplace and at home to navigate conflict, to understand, some potential triggers in our path of conflict. Let's just say, there's a guy in the audience and he's really struggling with, maybe some patterns, some behavior issues that he'd really like to w clean up in his house or in his business. He would like to learn more about this and maybe connect with you. What's, what's a good way for someone in our audience to connect with you and learn more. 


 Paul
 Yeah, absolutely. You can visit us online at velocity leadership, consulting.com. That's one word, or I can be emailed@pauldotmartinatvelocitylc.com. And we work with small organizations. We work with very large organizations, like I said, banks, healthcare, that thing. And we, and we don't usually work. We'll work one-on-one with someone in a corporation, but w we're not into what I would call a consumer therapy, but we can certainly put you in touch with someone in your area that is skilled at neuro-linguistic program, behavioral neuroscience that can identify trigger points and can, help them live a better life. 


 Josh
 Sounds good, man. Are there any questions during this interview that I completely screwed up and did not ask you? 


 Paul
 No, I think this was very good. 


 Josh
 Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, let's do this guys listening into the audience, man, if you're in a, if you run a company or you're in an organization where there's maybe a lot of high stress or conflict, and you'd like to explore, some of these ways to have healthy conflict and to take a look at maybe bringing in AKA Wendy Rhodes kind of person to tune up your business as always reach out to our guests and connect and find a way to work together. All of their contact information will be in the show notes below. You guys could connect with them directly. If you guys are working on something and it needs some tough advice or need some help with something you can always head on over to uncensored advice for men.com, fill out a quick form and either get you on the show. Maybe you could share advice with the world, or maybe connect you in with one of my past guests that can help you through a tough top. 


 Josh
 So I love you guys. The show is for you, and I will talk to you all on the next episode. See you guys. 

 

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Paul Martin

VP of Business Development

LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT AND TRAINING PROFESSIONAL
With over 25 years’ experience in maximizing performance in the areas of Business Development, Sales, Marketing,
and Operations through behavioral neuroscience.