July 13, 2022

How To Re-Examine Your Point of Reference with Bob Shallow


Bob was blessed with a unique 28-year corporate career that touched many aspects of business leadership.  This included working for Ford Motor Company where only God could have orchestrated the 16-year path that took him from Database Programmer to Vehicle Line Manager for the Taurus/Sable Product Line.  Along the way Bob became a certified Project Management Professional (PMP), earned his Master of Science degree in Engineering Management (Wayne State University), became certified in Lean Manufacturing and as a Six Sigma Quality ‘Black Belt.’ After much thought and prayer, Bob made the difficult decision to leave Ford Motor Company, joining Hyster-Yale Group where he spent the next six years, first as Director of Global Product Development Processes, Systems and Operations, and then as the Director of the Americas Warehouse Products Development Center.  Prior to joining C12, Bob served as Vice President of Quality, Engineering and Continuous Improvement for TWG, a Dover Company.

Bob is thrilled with the opportunity to bring his passions together as the C12 Principal Chair for Northeast & North Central Florida!  He has always had a passion for leadership and serving his Lord which has given him many opportunities to serve in church leadership capacities (e.g., Deacon, Teacher, Youth Leader, Small Group Leader).  Bob also has a passion for workplace leadership, teaching, coaching and mentoring, having developed and delivered many training classes in Project Management, Change Management and Lean implementation.  He is a student of Organizational Theory and tools (including DISC and Meyers-Briggs personality profiling and Emotional Intelligence/EQ tools) and has also facilitated numerous process improvement and Kaizen events.  He has also served as Adjunct Professor at Wayne State University, teaching a Masters-level Project Management course.  Because of Bob’s broad, hands-on experience with strategic and operational management methods, he has an expansive toolkit from which to draw upon to help businesses achieve their desired results.

Bob splits his time between Ocala and St. Simons Island where he and his wife, Sandy, live with their youngest son Harrison.  Their oldest daughter, Brooke, graduated from Auburn University and is now serving in campus ministry at Oxford College in Oxford Georgia and is married to her husband Robert who has a Masters in Mental Health Counseling from Mercer University and is a Christian Mental Health Counselor. Their oldest son Trent graduated from Valdosta State University in Georgia, with a major in Finance and is using that knowledge to work his way into franchise ownership.  Their middle son Jack is studying at Florida State College – Jacksonville.  
Bob enjoys time with his family, outdoor activities, tennis, golf, running, reading and walking their Black Lab, Vader, as in Darth.

Resources:
Here are the resources that have been helpful in this season of self-discovery:

I think I Might Be Autistic: A Guide to Autism Spectrum Disorder Diagnosis and Self-DIscovery for Adults by Cynthia Kim

The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood

When Your Man is on the Spectrum: To KNow, Understand & Transform Your Relationship by Dr. Pnina Arad

Blessed are the Misfits by Brant Hansen - branthansen.com

Support the show

Transcript

Josh:

All right, fellows. Welcome back to uncensored advice for men. I'm here with my friend today, Bob shallow, who has been a guide, a mentor, a guy who lifted me up when I was in a really dark spot. I'm really excited to help him share a story today and here in the studio in Ocala, Florida, Bob shallow, Bob. Welcome.

Bob:

Thank you. Thank you, Josh. Looking forward to seeing where all this goes.

Josh:

Me too, man. Why don't you give us of an idea about who you are?

Bob:

Wow. That's that could go a lot of different directions. You may be familiar with the journey song that starts out a S a city boy born and raised in south Detroit. It talks about a small town girl. Well, I'm a small town boy that was born and raised. South of Detroit was born into a real small city called Rockwood, Michigan, born into a very middle-class family. My, my father was a truck driver. My mom, at that time, as most worries, stay at home mom and lived in a pretty middle class area, kind of that cookie cutter subdivision. From there, God took me on a pretty interesting journey that has spanned nearly 60 years now and has taken me places that I had no idea that I was going to be going. Recently, this year in particular, he's worked a lot on me as far as breaking me down completely and totally mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. Recently I've through some self-discovery found out that I'm actually a high functioning autistic. Now, as I look back over this journey, God has taken me. It puts me in of all that he's been able to take again, this small town boy who, after being born and raised for a few years in that middle-class world, I ended up in a trailer park on welfare in a place that most people don't want to be. And, and so I would say the meta-theme of my life has just been perseverance. He has kept throwing things at me, and I just keep, every time I get knocked down, I just keep getting back up and keep walking forward.

Josh:

You mentioned and will, I'd love to share kind of each steps of the way, because you went from trailer park to high executive at some big companies that we've all heard of, but you mentioned that God breaks you down for, that doesn't seem like the message of God's here to, prosperity and, God wants us to be abundant and have riches and all this other stuff. What do you mean by this? God broke you down.

Bob:

That's something I've really been digging into, again, almost throughout, because, interestingly enough, this is July, 2022. I came to know Christ as Lord and savior in July of 1972. This is kind of my 50th spiritual birthday. As I looked back, it was almost coincidence with when I, I came to know Christ as Lord and savior that my life took some pretty hard turns. And, and so that has always been this question, I've read the Bible multiple times. I know John 10, which says that, the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy, but I come to give you life and to give it abundantly. Throughout most of my life, I've never really felt like this doesn't seem like the abundant life. This just seems like a lot of trial tribulation. We all know, he also said you will have trials and tribulations. A lot of study in this area, and I see it throughout, especially when we get into scripture. If you look at those people that we kind of hold up as the stalwarts of Christian dome in the Bible, you will almost always see that point where they broke them down. Moses who ended up doing great things, but God took 40 years to prepare him, had them, kind of out of sight, out of mind for 40 years, preparing him, Joseph, we all know the story of how he completely and totally broke him down and then built him up. I feel especially this year in particular, those things seem to be going relatively well. I mean, most people would have looked at me and said, pretty successful as far as what was going on, and then ended up with some pretty significant my current marriage over the last 12 years had been pretty Rocky anyway, but really started to be emotionally draining, ended up with finding out that I had gout and long COVID. Physically just really being broken down and then the mental piece of it, especially as I started digging into this concept of high functioning, autistic to find out that, most of what, how I had perceived the world for the last 60 years was inaccurate and I had the wrong point of reference. Again, just really, he has really challenged everything that I've known to bring me to that point where I've basically realized that the reason he's doing this, because it isn't going to because of anything I have. Yes, he's given me talents, he's given me abilities, but it doesn't because of that. He wants me to know that's, I need to completely and totally surrender to him. This whole concept of what does it mean to pick up your cross and follow me? I think that's what the breaking down was about is, I had some pride issues. I, I, felt pretty good about some of the things I've accomplished and I think he needed to help me understand that if I'm going to be the follower that he wants me to be, if I'm going to accomplish the things, if he's going to accomplish the things he wants to accomplish through me, and I have to get to that point of total surrender and it takes breaking down in order to get there.

Josh:

Yeah. Explain this. When you said looking back, it was kind of clear, but through recent events, you did some self discovery and you said that you might, you might've found out that your high functioning, autistic, like what does that look like for you? And, and how did you come to even think about that?

Bob:

I kinda knew throughout life, I I've been very open with most people, I, I knew I was a loner. I knew I was, at least by the time I got into corporate America and started doing the personality assessments and whatnot, I knew I was a pretty extreme introvert, but I still have been, very successful. And, I, even though I graduated from a pretty small college, I ended up at Ford motor company, ended up in the executive positions at Ford motor company and other large corporations. So I had a lot of success. I just figured, yeah, I'm a little quirky and I'm a little odd, but w and, within the past few years, I would hear things about what characterizes an autistic, about how routine oriented they are and how repetition and how they like to be by themselves and do things. I actually started saying, that it's probably likely that I tip that autistic scale, but I didn't think I was. Ways up on the autistic scale. It was really by chance that I started to really dig into it again, as I had mentioned, my wife and I were having some pretty extreme difficulties. In fact, we'd been separated for several months and she texted me a book by Brent, handsome about, the men we need. I figured, okay, she wants me to read this so that, I can see how I'm not being the husband I'm supposed to be and whatnot. And so texted back. Yep. Got I'll go ahead and read it. After a bit of a pause, she texted me back and said, yeah, I didn't. I sent that to you by mistake. I really meant it for K one of her friends that she happened to be meeting with, who had a autistic son and a couple of dates. So, it was like, okay, I guess I don't need to read this. A couple of days later, she texted me and said, after my conversation with Gaye and with Kay, I, I, I just feel like God is laying it on my heart, that maybe we should see a counselor that has experience with people that are autistic. You've mentioned that you might tip the autistic scale. Maybe that's where we need to go. It was I'm open to doing whatever it is, God wants us to do so I didn't think too much about it, but I texted back. Sure. I'm, I'm open to that. She sent me, an intake form that I had to fill out in order for this particular counselor to work with us. It was asking a lot of questions around, how did you get your formal diagnosis and those types of things. I'm going to go on, I've never been formally diagnosed. I started researching it on the web, and I found that there were lots of these assessments that you could take online. So I said, what the heck? I started doing those and every single one of them came back. It's not just likely that you're a high functioning, autistic, it's extremely likely that you are a high functioning autistic. I, I'm now starting to question everything, what did this is completely different than anything that I thought started reading books on the subject. As I went through all of that, yeah, there is no doubt in my mind as I, I look at the criteria and whatnot, and then look back over my life. Yes, I'm absolutely a, a high functioning autistic, probably the, the thing that helps most there's I'm in relatively good company. Most people don't know it, but Elon Musk is a high functioning, autistic Dan Akroyd, Jerry Seinfeld, which was the one that really kind of surprised me because we think of him a being this kind of Charles Schultz, many believe that Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were many believe that Mozart. And, and, so as I started looking at that, because our natural perception of autism and I was meeting with somebody, I respect quite a bit and I started to relay this and he looked to me, he goes, you're not autistic because our natural perception of autism is this person that is highly dysfunctional for the most part. Right. And hence term high functioning. At one point in time, it was Asperger's now at formerly would be autism spectrum disorder level one. It means our brain is wired on that autistic spectrum. We have learned how to function with those that are normal.

Josh:

If you and I took a test side by side, and we're looking through the questions, what, and me pretty well, you've heard my story. You've seen, you've coached me in business and we spent time together sitting side by side and you get to look at my answers and I get to look at your answers, where would we start to see a difference? And, and you're saying from a quote, I'm not a normal person. Let's just be very clear about this, but from a normal person versus autistic. Okay.

Bob:

Probably the very first questions. If you get into, kind of a manual on mental health, the very first part of the assessment is this whole concept of how do you like doing life? Do you like doing life by yourself or do you like doing life with others? The last questions around, do you prefer doing projects by yourself or do you prefer doing projects with others? That's where, it really started to aluminate for me because, I had mentioned I'm a loner, even with my wife, Sandy loves this team concept of let's go do stuff together. Let's go work in the garage together. I frequently went to kind of say, man, if you would just tell me what you want done, I'll go get it done. I, I, I just enjoy working by myself, social functions, part of the assessment will be, how do you like going to social events? Do you like networking with other people? Do you like meeting new people? I would rather have bamboo shoots, shoved up my nails than to get into that particular world. You, I've watched you when there's a room full of people, that's where you enjoy getting out there, getting to know people and that type of thing. Most people, have heard the term autism, but they don't recognize that the root word, the Greek word reward for autism means self. The key thing of autistics as we tend to be very, self-focused very isolated solitude. So, most people, they get energy by being out there with other people. That's how they energize while they a autistic it's solitude, being alone, being quiet. The other thing is repetition, autistics love routine. And, I never understood it, but my wife can attest to it. If went to a restaurant we had been to before I'm ordering whatever I had last time, my, some of the, the people I know in the business that I have, I had mentioned, possibly being on the autistic scale and Migos. That's why you park in the exact same spot. You always park in. That's why I just, have this routine repetition. Those are kind of the key characteristics. When you dig into it is a spectrum. So, there's some that have those traits. There's some that really, if, if, kind of when you get along the spectrum into the ones that are more, I would say, unable to function, it's things like that. If you take them out of their routine and they don't know what to do, you can take me out of my routine. I don't like it. It's extremely uncomfortable, but I can still function.

Josh:

If, if there were, you said, have you ever been formally diagnosed by professional? You mentioned that there might be some challenges in being formally diagnosed. How old are you by the way,

Bob:

I will be 60 in January.

Josh:

Happy birthday. How, how and why is there no formal diagnosis for someone of your age?

Bob:

So, unfortunately it's not like being diagnosed with cancer or a disease because there isn't anything biological. They are starting to find, that they can do some brainwaves and things like that and start to see it, but it is a completely and totally subjective diagnosis. As I started looking into it, I was absolutely open to being diagnosed, but one of the things they require is they need to be able to talk to somebody who knew you when you were a child. In my case, both my parents are deceased. The really, I, I have a older sister and older brother, but my older sister is 12 years older than I am. So, as I was growing up, she was a teenager and she didn't really interact with me much. My brother's seven years older than me, same type of thing. Cause he never really knew me as a child. Since I don't have anybody that really knew me as a child, most psychiatrists, or are, they basically are hesitant to do that. The assessment though is, a lot of the things that I just talked about, those are the questions they're gonna ask is. Again, from a self-diagnosis standpoint, there's no doubt that I absolutely fall on the spectrum.

Josh:

Yeah. I've heard you say this in our business coaching, you said, I'm going to, and were in a group of people and I could tell in the beginning, before the meeting started, you stayed to yourself, you'd say, hi formerly, but you would, take a phone call or try to not avoid, but avoid. Right. You would step into your routine and you would shine if there were a test and let's just say, the test came back super positive. Yep. You are here, here's your diagnosis. How would you respond to that? Versus you take the test and it comes back in and says, you're absolutely not 100% not like how would that formal diagnosis maybe change your view or not view, ,

Bob:

Having just kind of started to walk through this, the, the formal diagnosis of yes, you are. I, I start reassessing my life. I start going back and I can start looking at now. I understand why I behaved this way here. Now I understand why I did what I did here. Now. I understand why people perceived me this way. I can remember in corporate America in particular, I frequently, my superiors would describe me as being arrogant and aloof. And, I can remember even my last performance, one of my last performance reviews that my supervisor gave me. He's, we're both executives at this point in time, but he said, I went and asked all of the C-suite, what would you have me say to Bob? And, and to a person they all said you're arrogant. He said, to be honest, I haven't seen it, but you should know that's the perception. What I now know is, yeah, I'm, I'm quiet, but I walk with a confidence and that was something. I didn't have that as a child. In fact, I had the exact opposite. I was extremely insecure around people and it wasn't until I got into corporate America and starting having some success. It was at Ford in particular, I had some coaching that said, when you get into that meeting, I just want you to know right now you wear your emotions on your sleeve. Everybody knows exactly what you think and how you're feeling. That's not a compliment because if somebody says something, you don't agree with it's real clear. You don't agree with them. They said, if you want to be successful here, you got to be confident when you speak, you got to be real confident about what you were speaking. So this is where I was learning. What does it take to be successful in this world? Because it doesn't come natural. I overcompensated, I got to the point where I came across as a pretty much a know it all and arrogant, because that was the only thing that people saw in me. Even though that wasn't the real me even .

Josh:

Yeah. Aloof. What do you, what does, describe what that means.

Bob:

Better than everybody else? The, the perception was I felt like, I had all the answers on the person that you should be looking to. I know more than I I'm the smartest guy in the room is, and to be honest, there was a point, especially after the success that I was having, but I started to feel a bit of that way is that I am the smartest guy in the room. I do know what needs to be done. There was some poor behavior that came with that.

Josh:

Yeah. Growing up extremely insecure, extremely extroverted, introverted. I'm sorry. Introverted. Yeah, absolutely. I was the opposite. How did you show up as a teenager?

Bob:

So teen years were my childhood years. Weren't nearly as tough as my teenage years because it was easy for me to just kind of be by myself. So, I'd mentioned, we, I, I was born into this middle-class family. We lived in the subdivision with the cookie cutter and, there were woods that were by there. What I loved to do was to explore. I'd spend my time out, hanging out in the woods when I was born, my dad was a truck driver. So didn't see him very much. He then got a job at Chrysler as a tool and dye maker at the Chrysler engine plant. So he started making good money. He was, the absolute workaholic he would take every hour. They got would give him, you wanted that double pay on weekends and triple pay on holidays. I never really saw him a whole lot financially. He did relatively well, and were able to build a house. We moved kind of from middle class to upper middle class. It was on an acre backed up to the woods and the here in river. Again, that was as a child, that's what I did. I went and explored in the fields and the rivers and the got a dog at one point in time. It was me and my dog when I got into those teenage years, suddenly, life changes obviously, and everything is a lot more about being social and, in getting into middle school or junior high, I, one of the other things that you will find about autistics is they get extremely focused on those things that interest them to the exclusion of everything else. It's very rare that they don't, they aren't interested in more than two or three things. As I got into middle junior high, I'm looking for, what can help me? Because up until that point in time, I was extremely small. I was bullied constantly, which living in that trailer park, the bus would park at the clubhouse and we'd have to walk home. Well, trailer parks are small little, lots with a bunch of them. My, experience getting off the bus almost every day was I'd said something that stupid to somebody and they were going to beat the crap out of me. When we got off the bus, I didn't have the greatest flat-out speed, but I was small and quick. In a trailer park, it was pretty easy to maneuver through, except I've also was a high functioning autistic, which means I would take the exact same route every time. I knew where you're going to be everything. They'd figure that out. Eventually. I mean, if anybody knows football league wide receivers, greatest advantage is they know where they're going to go and the defender doesn't, I lost that advantage. So, but what that helped is when I got into junior high track was the, Hey, I'm going to go out for track. And it was, you know, sprints. The other thing that was interesting now, as I watched these guys doing this Povo thing, and I thought, man, is that look cool? In fact, one of the things I was known for in the neighborhood was a trailer park back to actually backed up to the junior high, which had advantages and disadvantages, but there was a tree in our backyard and I got really good. I could stand on the fence and leap to the first branch kind of hold onto it, swing back, swing up to the next branch. I got known for, kind of being that monkey. I'm watching the pole volt go on. And is that look fun? One of the things interesting about autistics is we tend not to be all that well coordinated. Usually the first time we try something, it doesn't go very well. I'm watching them out there, pull vaulting. This is just after the 76 summer Olympics. I might, my new hero, which is interesting today was a sky called Bruce Jenner who won the decathlon. Again, the pole volt just fascinated me. I went out there and said, Hey, I want to do this. It isn't most of your normal athletes that ended up being pole vaulters, takes a special person to take this 15 foot pole, hold all the way at the end of it and run as fast as you can and plant it in a box and throw yourself up as high as you can go. It's mostly, as I get out there, it's these guys who I know their potheads and derelicts, and I think, and I'm the smallest guy out there, and these guys are big and they're kind of gone. You gotta be kidding me. So no, I'd like to try it. And they said, fine, here's the poll. Go ahead. That was it. That was all the instruction I got. I held at the very end, ran as fast as I could plant it in the box, went up about a quarter of the way he fell over, hit the standards, almost killed myself and they just cracked up and said, get outta here. Okay. But I was fast. Sprints, I started doing the sprints and near the end of the year, we had a seventh, eighth grade meet and fastest eighth grade, seventh grader. I think he was in the same grade. I was a big tall black kid who loved to make my life miserable by the way. And, and so the coach is sitting there going, well, I need somebody else. I need somebody else. And I'm just kind of sitting around. He finally goes, where's that little rookie, what happened to that little rookie kind of gone? I yeah, you you're, you're in and almost beat that big black kid. Now I realize sprints might be the thing. Really starting to get into sports, thinking this is going to be my identity. This is how I can come. Eighth grade, it's after school, all of a sudden, my best friend, my best friend was this really big kids. Were mutton Jeff, that cartoon of the big dog, little dog. That was kind of how people perceived us. He comes running across, he's got these shoulder pads on, he's got equipment. He goes, man, you got to go get on the football team with me. You gotta be kidding me. I'm literally the smallest kid in our class. No, really go do it. I go, I'm never going to make a football team. He said, we don't have enough people. They're taking out. Everybody you'll get on the team. Okay. Which again was interesting for me because I'm now in this world that I don't understand. He's the only one I know. First practice, we got a pair up, okay. I'll pair up with them and we're doing some drills, but that's the hitting drill. Yeah. Hit each other. The very first time him and I went at it, he hit me right about here, lifted me about five feet off of the ground and put me right on my back. The rest of the team just cracked up and I'm ready to quit. It's like, this is ridiculous. That was when I realized that I have to start thinking about how do I, what advantage can I have here? Nobody had taught me it, but I started to think from a physics perspective. I knew where he hit me and I knew what ended up happening. It was like, well, naturally, all I have to do is get lower than him. So we get back into our stance. Now everybody's kind of watching and they want to see him plant me again. I'm kind of going, I'm going to hit them right in the FYS. Because he, if I hit him in the thighs, he can't get underneath me and I hit him and it backs him up and everybody is kind of, we do it again. Now it's like, thighs were good, but maybe knees will better. Long story short. I ended up starting on that football team because I had learned how. Now I'm starting to be accepted kind of with the cool guys, not just because I've made the team, but they've all, they also recognized my hustle, my determination. I, I knew I don't have any of the physical attributes ended up making the team that year in track. So it's eighth grade. Now, those derelicts are all gone. We were a very first meet. I think it was. I did my thing and one of my friends came over and said, Hey, pull volts over and whatnot. Why don't you come give it another try. Okay. Got it. You gotta be kidding me after that. Oh, come on. Just me and you. In fact, I'll give you some pointers. I'll tell you what you need to do. First jump. I went higher than anybody did in the meet that day. I ended up finding out that you have a good build for it. Even though I was small, it would have been better to be bigger. But, I went on to break my high school record, which I think I still hold it to the state ended up pivoting in college. But it was because it's extremely repetitious. You do the exact same thing every single time, no matter what the height of the bar was. And so again, athletics was my thing. In ninth grade I had a, a best friend who was in that athletic world with me. And, he was kind of the, the coolest kid around. And I was his best friend. Ninth grade was by far my best year from a perspective, the end of that year, him and his family moved to Iowa. My 10th grade year was my absolute worst because I was completely alone and had no cause we're now. Ninth grade still junior high, 10th grade is high school. Now it's a whole bunch of different people and I didn't know how to. My teen years ended up being relatively painful from that standpoint. It was again, just kind of that loneliness and not having the wired capability to just go out and make friends.

Josh:

Yeah. My timeline's a little unclear, starting in middle-class, cookie cutter development, your family started getting some success. Your dad was workaholic. You guys built a house on half an acre, where does a trailer park faded? And how did that end up,

Bob:

I'll try and do this in the shortest version I can, but this is where the story begins and just really takes off. We get to that house that he built, he's working for Chrysler, but he's working the afternoon shift. His day basically is he would get up around one o'clock. We would have dinner at two o'clock. He would then go off work, his afternoon shift, come home, sleep rarely ever saw my dad. In fact, my, about the only memories that I really have of my dad is occasionally he would ask me to, help him with something. The way that usually went is he'd show me, here's what I want you to do. I would try it and fail miserably. In wet me upside the head and say, dummy, get out of here. That was what I knew of my dad. I started to notice, in third grade, when I was nine, that there seems to be a tempered there as well. I, I heard the stories later of how he brutally beat my brother. My brother ended up being, starting quarterback. He was the guy, everybody in the neighborhood idolized, but he went off and did a lot of stupid stuff, got into drugs and a lot of other things. When my dad would find out it would get pretty nasty. I never witnessed it, but I'd heard the stories about it afterwards, but come the spring of 1972 sister and I, my younger sister was five years younger than I was went to. The elementary school was showing some film on a Saturday in the afternoon. I went and did that. When we came home, it's completely quiet. The house is eerily quiet, and I'm just kinda looking around and there's a hole in the wall when my mom's glasses or our destroyed on the floor, the kitchen is just a mess. I went to my bedroom, didn't, dig into it or anything like that. It was a couple of days later found out that, my dad had just become irate because there wasn't any milk didn't touch my mom, but it was ugly. Again, just, I fluffed it off and went on. Probably a couple of weeks later on, at Cub Scouts, beautiful April day in Michigan, which you don't get a whole lot of, but clear blue sky it's in the sixties. Cub Scouts ends it's after school and I'm waiting to be picked up. And nobody came and picked me up. We had a half hour, the parents are kind of got on, Hey, you want us to call, wait an hour. Okay, I'll call, nobody picks up the phone. You want us to take your home? It was only, it was about three miles away. I had a guy who actually stuck around who knew it was on the way I walk home. So I got home. And, and again, this house is on an acre, but it sits up on a hill and has a walkout basement, beautiful. The backyard butts up to the woods and whatnot. I get there and there's all these people at my house and there's pickup trucks and there's stuff in the pickup trucks. I'm seeing people moving stuff and I'm confused. I recognize these are aunts and uncles and cousins, and finally find my mom what in the world's going on? We're moving. Okay. Then, somewhere in that conversation, I, and so when, because I recognized everybody seems to be here, but I don't see dad, when's dad coming. You got this look on my mom's face. And she said, he's not coming. In my entire world. Again. Didn't know at the time I was high functioning, autistic, my entire world changes. We get to the small little, two bedroom apartment five or six miles away. Later that evening, mom gets me in my sister and basically tells us that, she's scared to death of my dad. We got em, you know, we're moving. Again, an just, and that set up a time of where we then walked into this, Getting back together, not getting back together. That's 1972. So it's the spring of 1972. They get to this point, they're going to get back together. So my dad had sold the house. He ended up buying a, another semi-truck, he's going back into truck driving. We're, we don't know where we're going to live. Temporarily we're gonna, we're going to get this small little trailer that you guys are going, w we're all gonna live in a small little trailer until we figure things out. So this is the spring of 1972. The small little trailer is a 12 by 6,720 square feet, two bedroom trailer, that's housing, five people, but it's just going to be temporary. That was, I lived there nine years is how temporary that ended up being. That summer we used to, as a family, we used to go up into Canada. There was this a Christian family conference. They called it. As a family, we'd go there every single year. Well, this year, because of everything that had happened, it was just going to be my mom and It was interesting because, I can remember for almost a year up until that point in time, my mom and my sister they'd sit down with me and they'd share the gospel. It didn't make any sense to me whatsoever. It was about as nonsensical was as anything I could just didn't understand it at all. The summer we go and we go there and just my mom and I, and that final day, the children pastor shared the gospel and it made perfect sense to me. The light bulb went off and I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. We moved into this time of turmoil. Cause it was again, kind of the short version a couple of years later. I could get real deep into the whole story, but for all kinds of different reasons that it's finally clear my mom and dad aren't getting back together. My dad does a bunch of stuff that ends up getting him on the FBI's radar screen and he ends up disappearing. I didn't see him again for 13 years after that. It's just, my mom and my younger sister and I, my mom ends up with this boyfriend that ended up beating her and all kinds of other stuff that was going on, before that were on welfare. And that was my teen years. I got into my senior year and I'm trying to figure out what do I do after this? I had spent since fifth grade on determined, this, this being focused one thing, I was going to be a surgeon. The only reason that happened was in fifth grade, I had a teacher who one day just kind of looked at me and he said, man, you have the hands of a surgeon. To the best of my knowledge, that was one of the very first and only times I can remember somebody giving me a compliment. And so it was kind of like, Wow, I'm good at something dug into that. I got into some of my senior year, I knew that's what I was going to go do. I was going to run away from Michigan as far as I possibly could and ended up going to school out in California.

Josh:

Before we go, I don't know what you're allowed to say or what you're not allowed to say. I want to be sensitive to that. Two things gospel didn't make sense, made sense now, right? From a Sunday school teacher, especially, I'd love to hear it from your perspective because you're a very deep thinker. You're a very analytical thinker. You're a very process driven person. I know you and I can testify to that. What changed the light bulb on that? When it comes to the father and FBI and such and dad disappearing for 13 years share what you can, maybe those two things. Sure.

Bob:

The, the faith piece of it. I, again, I can remember, like it was yesterday, my mom and sister Sharon, the gospel to me and my thought was it can't possibly be that easy. There's no way in the world. It's as easy as all I have to do is believe in this person called Jesus, that he died on the cross for all my sins and accept him as Lord and savior. It can't be that makes no sense. It's not logical. That's the other thing you'll find when you dig into autism is autistics brains tend to be wired very logically. It's gotta be very logical. We don't deal in emotion. We don't deal in those worlds. My only explanation for why the light bulb went on is that was God's timing. The holy spirit drew me to Christ and said, yes, it makes perfect sense. Because that was the only way it makes perfect sense because they had to be a perfect person that willingly was going to pay the price for all that you had done and that it will never be anything you do. And it's his free gift to you.

Josh:

For someone who has never really been given stuff, you've had to learn it, fight against your natural wiring. You've had to, figure out your competitive advantages and you've had to figure out how to get anything you've ever gotten. How in the world did that make sense to you? It, through the eyes of, high functioning, autistic, how does that reconcile itself.

Bob:

Again? I think what I think the light bulb that kind of went on as I, I kept assuming that you have to earn it. It's gotta be earned. Nobody gives you anything for free. You gotta earn it. That's what life's all about. That's what my dad would tell me almost every day, you have to earn it. That's what I was learning is you have to earn it and now all. The message was, you don't have to earn it. It's just free that didn't click at all. And, and this particular children's pastor did an excellent job of explaining that it couldn't work by being earned. It can only work if it is a free gift, that God is giving you this choice. And he's the only one that's perfect. It takes somebody that is absolutely perfect. In fact, God, himself, that can pay the price for what you did, because throughout all this history, there were people that tried to earn it. They always failed people that tried to earn it always failed the law that was given people, tried to follow it and they always failed. The only way it's gonna work is there's gotta be somebody that is perfect. That is going to take it from you. It's going to be a gift to you. That's the only way it makes sense. And that logically made sense.

Josh:

Yeah. Before we fast forward to now, FBI, what the heck? Yeah.

Bob:

Summer of 76 was my interesting summer that just, I went through such highs and lows. It's hard to describe. Again, we're living in this trailer park.

Josh:

Temporarily for nine.

Bob:

Years, for nine years. At that point in time, we'd have lived there for four years. My dad had taken off and moved to California because it was clear. They weren't going to be able to make it, but they're still in contact. That Christmas is, would have been the Christmas of 75. He invites us out, he's got this little trailer in desert, hot Springs, which is right by Palm Springs and Hey, come see us. We do, and it, I fall in love with California. I'm going this. I can roam the desert and just have such an incredible time. My mom and dad seemed to be getting along. At the end of the trip, they announce we're getting back together. We're moving to California and I'm just on cloud nine. This is amazing. A few months go by, my mom is drinking more and more. It's when we realized she clearly is an alcoholic. She's going to bars at night. I'm wondering what in the world is going on with any of this stuff. Yeah. She starts Brandon Guy home. She ends up bringing this one guy home and I'm going, what do you do? We're moving to California with a dad. And in that I'm lonely. I just, just until, just, yeah. Again, picks up this one guy who, and brings him home and I'm in my bedroom. All of a sudden I hear him hitting her and I am paralyzed. I have no idea what in the world am I supposed to do? So I'm 13 years old. I don't know what to do. I hear her finally scream for me and my sister. We come out and she says, get Marcy, next door neighbor run over. Marcy had been to the bar with them. So kind of understood. She goes, grabs a hammer, comes into the house. All of a sudden my mom and guy's, name's Hank just start yelling at her. And, and now I'm completely and totally confused. And this guy is furious. Again, starts going after my mom and whatnot. She gets into the kitchen, pulls out a butcher knife and looks right at him in us and says, you guys can go to, Betty's not gonna touch me again. I'm, I have no idea other than I get to my bedroom. The overwhelming thought is, now we're going to go to California. For sure. There's no way that any of this is going to mourn and he'll be out and we're good. That morning she says, no, I, and she is black and blue from head toe. I'd never seen anybody. She says, I can't go out like this. I need him to stay at least for a week or two until, and I'm going, Hank, I'm going book. My sister's married, at this point in time, Dale and Donna will, no, no. You can't ever tell them what is going on. You can't ever tell them what has happened. And I'm devastated. I'm like, this makes no sense and a week too. And she finally goes, And now I can't kick them out. Another week goes by and she sits my sister and I down. She says, we're not going to California. As I look back through my life. I'm 13 at this point in time, I can't remember a time up until that point in time where I had cried. I was devastated and went to bed and sobbed the entire night and did for about the next 30 to 35 nights, just, and I couldn't wrap my head around it. My brother's getting married that summer and my dad's coming to the wedding. And my dad knows what has happened. My dad was a pretty big guys boxer in the military. I started to hear some of the stories of things that were going on. We got into town, found Hank in a bar and blindsided them and knocked them to the floor. They got them out of there. Everybody now hates Hank because they have found out what has occurred. Sure. He can't come to the wedding. All this stuff is going on. My dad is trying to, When my mom back as it were, he starts calling her just incessantly, calling her. He starts threatening through this calling to the point where they got the police involved. The police said, you need to record them. So, they got this cassette recorder and taped them, Mike to the, there were no cell phones or whatnot, start recording all of his things and it's getting worse and worse. We ended up taking a summer vacation, a lake that we would always go to. My mom and Hank and the two kids and we go there and again, I'll give you the short version of the story, but there was one night somebody tried to break into the house and it wasn't until the last second, they realized that me and my cousin were in the house and then they ended up not doing it well, that next day, where we're out, we're leaving, we're going home. It was time. And Hank's car won't start. She runs the battery completely down and just trying to figure out what's going on. Finally figured out somebody had put sugar in the gas tank, Were able to, we could get it running long enough and far enough. We'd get it going along. I've in a breakdown and finally got home. Well, let me back up something that occurred before that his mom and my mom and Hanker together. She still going to the bars sometimes without him. One night she calls and called Hank and said, you gotta come get me. Y my car caught on fire.

Josh:

Okay.

Bob:

Whatever reason I think it was cause he was watching me. He takes me with him. We get to this bar, the car is torched. I happened to see my dad come through the parking lot with a Neurocam like this.

Josh:

Covering his face,

Bob:

Covering his face. Yeah. Trying to figure out what's going on. Next day, mom calls the insurance company. Obviously I go, your policy's been canceled. No, I never canceled the policy. Yeah. It's been canceled a couple of weeks before that my dad took my sister and I to the pool to a public pool and whatnot got back. He wanted to come inside. I said, I don't think mom wants you to convince me. It's okay. I happened to see him under the sink in the safety deposit box. She had gotten my mom's insurance policy and canceled it out fast forward, back to where we're getting home. We got to within a couple of miles of home and it was let's just leave this here. We're going to we'll get somebody to give us a ride back. We did got there, heard the sirens going off and whatnot, configure out for the life of us. That seems awfully odd. Later that evening went to get Hank's car and it had been torched. In fact, the gas can was inside it. Whoever had done it. My dad is calling, calling, and calls and that's about the car. Basically admits that he had torched it. He also had admitted over the phone being taped that, and I remember it that there was this one point in time and he described where were at. He basically told them that he was on the overpass. That was away with a high powered rifle. It was going to kill Hank and would have taken the shot. Had I not been sitting next to him? So all of this is on tape. The police finally get the FBI involved and the FBI, put a warrant out for him. He finds out about it and he.

Josh:

Disappeared, disappeared. You were nine ish when this was going on 13, 13. 13 years later, you're now mid twenties.

Bob:

Right? I would have been 26.

Josh:

Yeah. And you see them again.

Bob:

Here's why two months earlier, my mom passed away. He felt comfortable that whatever they were looking for him for. And so she had passed away. He had called, were all at my sister's happened to call her and said, Hey, I know your mom had passed away. Sorry about all that. I would just like to come and let you know my side of the story. We agreed on married at that particular point in time. He did, and he told us his side of the story of the anguish that he went through all of this. My dad was absolutely an alcoholic. In fact, he would drink about a, a case of beer a day. That was what was going on through all of this as well. The, the end of my dad's story is he was out in Joshua tree, out in the desert in California still. They found him in his car, naked froze to death. One day he was a meth dealer and a meth user. At that particular point in time, he was 84. I believe when all of that had happened, still drinking a case of beer a day as well. Also it had his foot amputated because he, because of the diabetes that occurred because of his drinking.

Josh:

Not a very easy upbringing, not, not a very, not a really great American story right. Of a lot of struggle fast forward to now, you're about to turn 60 and you texted me the other day and said, Josh had the chat with you. What, what sparked that?

Bob:

Over these last few weeks, as I have been, I, I, I, as I am digging into this new self-discovery of, I have this thing called high functioning autism, I'm realizing that my, the whole perception is reality thing is true, except perception is your reality. It may not be the reality. I'm recognizing that's the only reality if your point of reference is correct. I have now just found out my point of reference wasn't so I'm going through this self discovery piece. I'd always felt like God was kind of saying, you have a pretty amazing story. If you think about where you came from and what you've accomplished and whatnot, and I've always had kind of this, inside of me at some point in time, God wants me to tell my story. So, as I'm now getting into this part, I really felt like God saying, I I've now given you that final piece of the puzzle, you need to tell your story. I thought, okay, so you want me to write a book? You want me to do an autobiography? And you're not an author. I haven't created you to write a podcast, might be the way to tell your story. He laid your name on my heart, and I thought, okay, Ali will be obedient to whatever it is you want me to do? You tell me what you want me to do, and I will go out and do it. So that is why I reached out. I felt like he, he wants, I I've given you the view from space of what has occurred, but if the details are even more compelling as you dig into this 50 year journey that he has had me on.

Josh:

Yeah. I asked you about, now, your eyes started to tear up and I don't know if people on, just the podcast would be able to hear that, but I want to point that out. What was going through your mind when, when your, I started to tear up,

Bob:

It's incredibly humbling that Lisa has been for me these last few weeks, because I've, again, there's a part of me that when I look back over my story, it's easy for me to go look at what I did. I persevered look at how every time I came up against something really hard, I persevered. What has been humbling is what I've had to accept is I had nothing to do with me. I'm not wired that way. Even a little bit. I haven't been given those abilities. The only reason I've persevered is because God has been there the entire time. He has been the one I haven't even really gotten up myself. He picked me up and has kept me moving along. So, and with that, as I look back through, I can see where, when I wasn't walking with him, the way that I should, the pain that has caused of some of my behavior in that type of thing. And.

Josh:

It's caused you.

Bob:

Pain it's caused others. I I've, my first marriage fell apart. There was, I viewed it as it was all my ex-wife's fault. It was her infidelity. What I am learning through all of this is, even though we never are justified in sin, there were, I caused a lot of pain because of who I was completely and totally unintentionally and unaware of it, but I caused a lot of pain, which then caused my kids a lot of pain. And, I could go on and on with all of that. And that realization chokes me up.

Josh:

Now that you might be seen through a different point of reference, a different lens of some self-discovery things. How will that, how would that change your next set of actions?

Bob:

Sandy and I exchanged a couple of emails yesterday.

Josh:

And he's current wife, current.

Bob:

Wife, as a, as I'd have been letting her know here's what I am discovering. And, and I'm recognizing the incredible pain. There's a book out there called when your man is on the spectrum. It has crushed me because it has shown me quantitatively and empirically the pain that I've been causing. One of the things that she asked me was, what are you learning that is going to help you relate to me better? And, I told her I'm in the beginning of this whole self-discovery, but the one thing I can tell you is you will absolutely see a much more humble person going forward.

Josh:

It is so humbling to share your story, your testimony, right. I felt like I was broken down and I had to share it with you guys. God just kept on going, keep sharing it. Right. Keep sharing it. For dudes, listening in who might be struggling or who might maybe be on the spectrum themselves and who are listening to you and you go, you know that they're going, maybe that's me. Maybe I struggle with that. Or maybe one of my kids do or something like that. If you could look them in the eyes and give them some advice, what would that be?

Bob:

Certainly did to do the research. There, there are lots of resources out there now that describing great detail. What is all about? What was interesting for me is there are a lot of men that have found out that they're on the spectrum because they had a child on the spectrum. In fact, it's pretty much now thought that it is absolutely hereditary is, and it's not environmental. And that's where it comes from. There's a bunch of assessments out there. I, I definitely would take them and recognize that because I think there's a lot of men and I probably fell there that are afraid to do it because they don't want the answers. I didn't want the stigma that comes with that. Yeah. I, I don't want to be no. In fact, some of the books that I've read, they have chapters on, should you seek formal diagnosis? They talk about the fact of, you gotta be real careful with your employer. You gotta be real careful with, cause there's a stigma, but I would highly encourage taking those. Then, if it comes out that you're, it's highly likely that you are, you need to get help. That for men in particular is just tough and what God has really laid on my heart. It's interesting because through my 12 year marriage with Sandy, she has frequently said, you need a mentor, you need a mentor. My internal thought to that was, but I don't think I can find anybody that I'm going to respect enough to be a mentor to me,

Josh:

That understands you.

Bob:

Right. Well, I didn't know about this piece yet. So, initially it was there aren't too many people that I think have it more figured out than I do. How am I going to trust somebody to tell me, to mentor me when I think I have it pretty well figured out how long ago.

Josh:

Was this, that she was saying this.

Bob:

For almost 12 years. I mean, she has every time we've gone to see through all of that, it's always been, you need a mentor and I've been thinking through who could mentor me. When this, when I finally came to the realization that I'm high functioning, autistic, God has said, you absolutely need a mentor. You need a mentor who was also a high functioning. Autistic is further down the road, but you need a mentor. You need somebody who's going to help you walk through this. Sandy and I, even yesterday are in agreement. We need to find counseling that are, a counselor that is experienced in this world to help us through this. Autism is about self alone. What I have discovered is that's the worst thing I could do. I have to find somebody that can me walk through this.

Josh:

It's it's interesting. Your, your natural wiring is to say alone. I think a lot of us guys, our natural wiring is say, I've got this right. Don't ask for help. You might even have more of a bent towards that. At what point did you say, okay, cause you texted me and you say, I need to share my story. I need to go find a mentor. I need to humble myself. What was that? What was that moment? That was the light switch for that.

Bob:

For about six years, I've been on this journey about really understanding what abiding in Christ is all about. It's been a real interesting journey for me because up until a couple of months ago, I thought I had it pretty well figured out. I thought I knew what this whole abiding thing was and repetition. Every morning I'm spending time with God rotating into his word. He's speaking to me and I'm doing what he's telling me to do. As I was going through this realization, it was interesting because I had one of my, one of the people that I'm coaching. It was about a year ago. We were having our discussion and I was talking about what God hasn't been saying to me. I was trying to take him through this abiding journey and what I've learned and all of that. He looked at me and when he said it, it angered me. He didn't, I don't think he knew it. I've gotten very good at not showing my what's really going on. He said, I don't think you hear from God as well as you think you hear from God. It's like, who are you to tell me that I've been really digging deep into all of this,

Josh:

Look at what I've done.

Bob:

As I've been, as God has broken me completely down and I've been going through this new self discovery, it's clear. I didn't hear from God. It was clearly as I thought, because things that I thought for sure, this is what he has said I have now found is not truth at all. I'm still doing the routine, but I'm coming with a much more humble approach. Previously I would get a thought and I'd go, that's God. That's what I need to go do. Now, when I get a thought it's, let's dig in with him, let's really make sure. It was through that, when the thought first came, it was like, okay, I hear you, but I want to make sure. As I dug into it and it was crystal clear, he wants me to tell my story. It wasn't crystal clear was timing. All of that stuff. It was absolutely crystal clear. He laid your name on my heart. And it was very clear to me. He wanted me to reach out to you didn't know what that meant, what it would lead to, where that would go, none of that, but it was clear. He wanted me to reach out to you. And so that was that light bulb. That now's the time.

Josh:

I think that this is the beginning of you sharing. This is the beginning of your journey, right? I'm excited to kind of be the, the start of it with you during this interview. The goal of this show is to provide advice for men. What I hear for guys out there who may be struggling with this, or may be concerned that maybe this is them, right. This situation. They're trying to find that awareness of who they are. Could you, maybe you can just email them to me or something, but could we put some resources for those people? You mentioned Brant,

Bob:

Brent Hanson,

Josh:

Brent Hanson, and maybe some other resources. For guys out there in the audience, this is the beginning of Bob's journey. As always, my request to you guys is as always reach out to our guests and say, thank you for being on the show, thank you for taking the risk and sharing humbly and doing that. Reach out to them and say, thank you, if there's something that you need and you hear it from our guests, reach out to them and say, I need help. All their, when they, share some resources, they'll all be in the show notes below. If you need help, you can always head on over to uncensored advice for men.com. You can say, Hey guy, I couldn't find this information or whatever, and I'll plug you in with that. Bob, what is maybe one question that I should have asked you during this interview about you or about your belief system or about some new self discoveries? What's one question as we wrap up that I should have asked you that I completely screwed up and did not ask you.

Bob:

I've mentioned this whole theme of perseverance of, continually getting up and, and moving on and especially, and there isn't anybody on this planet right now that knows the whole story. If you knew the whole story of the question that you would want to ask is how did you keep your faith in Jesus Christ? Why, at some point, why didn't you go, if you really loved me, you would never ever put me through all of this. I had lots of those moments, especially early on where I was crying out, going. I see no reason for any of this. My heart, all my heart is just, I want to follow you and do what you want me to do. It seems like every time I am diligently doing that, I get whacked in the head and brought to my knees. And, and I don't understand any of that. The answer is, that's what faith is all about. And that's how he kept growing. My faith is every time I got to one of those points in time, he would bring something that would help me understand that. Being a follower of Jesus Christ doesn't mean you're going to have this nice, easy life, comfortable life that everybody is looking for. What he kept bringing to mind is I've said in my word, you're going to have trials and tribulations. I've said that you have to pick up your cross and follow me. I've said life's going to be hard. And. The reason it is hard is because that is when I'm building your character. All of this I'm putting you through is preparing you and building you and making you stronger for what it is I have. The light bulb didn't go on until I had children. When I had children, the light bulb started to going on, you have children, those moments where they go, why are you so mean? Why aren't you letting me do what I want to do? Why are you punishing me? I hate you. Why, why you, and it was in those moments where you just kind of went, that's what I keep eating. Cause I'm doing it for your good, I'm not this isn't me being mean to you. I'm not letting you do what you want to do because I'm doing this for your good, and that has been, for me, what has been most important as I go through this that no matter what is happening to me, Paul talks about the shipwrecks and the hunger and everything, beatings almost a and stoning. At the end of it, he says, I count it all joy. And that's what I've found. It's taken 50 years. That's what I've found is no matter what is going on, no matter my circumstances, I know there's a God who loves me more than I can ever imagine ever. He knows it's good.

Josh:

I've only done this a few times. I've done maybe a thousand interviews. Would you mind, would you mind praying for the guys in the audience?

Bob:

Absolutely. Dear heavenly father. We are so grateful. Thankful that no matter what happens in this life, no matter the fathers that we may have the circumstances. We may go through the things that we may experience. We are grateful that we know you love us more than we can ever imagine. We're not just your children. Where are your creations? You created us. And, and you created us to love on us lavishly. It may not look like it to us. And, and, from our perspective, it may seem like it's, you're being cruel to some extent, but the story, the message of your word is that you love us and that you want relationship with us and that you want us to do life with you. We know John 14 says that you've prepared this place for us, that we can't even imagine. And, and our hope is that no matter how hard this life may be one, you're there with us, walking us, walking with us through it. You're leading us to this place that we can't even imagine that we'll spend with you for eternity. We thank you for all that you do for us. We thank you for the love. One of the things that I've learned, hi, thank you for the trials and the tribulations, because it's in those moments. I know I grow closest to you, and I know that it is building me up and making me a much better person and follower of Jesus Christ. I lift up all of those who may be listening to this, all of those that. Maybe experiencing difficult trials questioning, can I get through all of this? I lift them up. I just ask that you would give them any special, extra measure of your comfort and peace. You didn't promise us happiness. You didn't promise us comfort, but you did promise us joy and peace. When we lean into you, that is when we experience that abundant, joy and peace. I am just so grateful and thankful that 50 years ago you reached down and brought me on to yourself and just ask that you would continue to use me in whatever way you're going to use me in order to tell my story and your story. We ask all these things in Jesus Christ name. Amen,

Josh:

Amen guys, as always uncensored advice for men.com. If you need something or if you've got some advice that you want to give to us, dudes, love you guys. Talk with you all on the next episode. See ya.

Bob Shallow Profile Photo

Bob Shallow

Principal Chair / Owner

Bob was blessed with a unique 28-year corporate career that touched many aspects of business leadership. This included working for Ford Motor Company where only God could have orchestrated the 16-year path that took him from Database Programmer to Vehicle Line Manager for the Taurus/Sable Product Line. Along the way Bob became a certified Project Management Professional (PMP), earned his Master of Science degree in Engineering Management (Wayne State University), became certified in Lean Manufacturing and as a Six Sigma Quality ‘Black Belt.’ After much thought and prayer, Bob made the difficult decision to leave Ford Motor Company, joining Hyster-Yale Group where he spent the next six years, first as Director of Global Product Development Processes, Systems and Operations, and then as the Director of the Americas Warehouse Products Development Center. Prior to joining C12, Bob served as Vice President of Quality, Engineering and Continuous Improvement for TWG, a Dover Company.

Bob is thrilled with the opportunity to bring his passions together as the C12 Principal Chair for Northeast & North Central Florida! He has always had a passion for leadership and serving his Lord which has given him many opportunities to serve in church leadership capacities (e.g., Deacon, Teacher, Youth Leader, Small Group Leader). Bob also has a passion for workplace leadership, teaching, coaching and mentoring, having developed and delivered many training classes in Project Management, Change Management and Lean implementation. He is a student of Organizational Theory and tools (including DISC and Meyers-Briggs personality profiling and Emotional Intelligence/EQ tools) and has also facilitated numerous process improvement and Kaizen events. He has also served as Adjunct Professor at Wayne State University, teaching a Masters-level Project Management course. Because of Bob’s broad, hands-on experience with strategic and operational management methods, he has an expansive toolkit from which to draw upon to help businesses achieve their desired results.

Bob splits his time between Ocala and St. Simons Island where he and his wife, Sandy, live with their youngest son Harrison. Their oldest daughter, Brooke, graduated from Auburn University and is now serving in campus ministry at Oxford College in Oxford Georgia and is married to her husband Robert who has a Masters in Mental Health Counseling from Mercer University and is a Christian Mental Health Counselor. Their oldest son Trent graduated from Valdosta State University in Georgia, with a major in Finance and is using that knowledge to work his way into franchise ownership. Their middle son Jack is studying at Florida State College – Jacksonville.
Bob enjoys time with his family, outdoor activities, tennis, golf, running, reading and walking their Black Lab, Vader, as in Darth.