How to Make Your Marriage Stronger After an Affair with Ronnie and Lorna Santana

Ronnie
 God, We come before you this afternoon thanking you for the opportunity to share our story. We know that you brought us through our experiences so we can share with others, and thank you for all that you do. Thank you for bringing Josh into our lives and just being be over our words, be over our story, help us to reach a lot of struggling marriages and people out there. Thank you for all that you do. Speak through us and within us, and you just named Amen. 

 Josh Wilson
 Amen. Awesome. All right, guys, good day. Welcome to Uncensored advice for men. This is a new kind of episode where we're bringing on husband and wife to share their story, share their journey. To be honest, I'm a little nervous because this is my first time in this kind of setting. So, guys, I love you. As always, you could head over to Uncensored Advice for Men.com to fill out a quick form to ask questions that you might have. Also, if you'd like to share your story, your journey, this is a place for it. Let me just set the stage here. This is a couple that I've known for probably 15 years or so and been friends for a long time and just recently reconnected. When I heard their story, I said, Man, I'd love to share it. And they said, okay. And I'm like, what? Okay, let's roll with it. 

 Josh Wilson
 This is an uncensored conversation, so let's just dive in. Ronnie, let's start with you. Why don't you tell everybody who you are? 

 Ronnie
 My name is Ronnie Santana, and I've been in Ocala for 28 years and married to my wonderful wife Lorna, for 14 years of marriage and 17 years together. We have three beautiful children, and that's pretty much it. And I'm here, and he has an. 

 Josh Wilson
 Amazing beard, so if you can stand out, it's really thick. It's beautiful. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 Do you like his beard, by the way? 

 Lorna
 I love it. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Lorna
 He knows that there's no shaving. 

 Josh Wilson
 No shaving allowed. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, no, I throw into shaving. My kids, like, freak out. 

 Lorna
 No, I don't even know that they know dad without a beard. 

 Josh Wilson
 If you ever showed up without a beard, you guys wouldn't recognize. 

 Ronnie
 They wouldn't let me in the house. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, perfect. And who are you? 

 Lorna
 I'm Lorna. I was born and raised in Ocala, and I met Ronnie in high school. Your high school sweetheart. I was 15, he was 17. We have three kids, two girls and a boy. I have stayed at home with them for the past probably seven to eight years and just got my real estate license, so Ronnie did also. We're kind of dabbling into that. Getting new into it. Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 Super cool. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 Part of your story is you guys met here, high school sweethearts, and then you moved away. Talk to us about why you guys moved in a part of that journey. Who wants to take it, I'll start. 

 Ronnie
 So we got married. Lauren was 18 and I was 20, and we got married in 2008. We had been dating for three years. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 And were super young. Didn't really know what we're doing or getting ourselves into. And, I mean, were in love. We've always been in love. I worked in the emergency services industry, and I guess you really don't know live what you have until live. You go through those tough moments and just not knowing what boundaries and what guards to put up. You find yourself in situations where you really don't think. That kind of is what brought us away from Ocala. Because I stepped out on my marriage at a young age, and so did Lorna. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, we both kind of stepped out at the same time. I was having an affair with a coworker. Ronnie was having an affair with a coworker. I would say we both probably knew that our marriage was off. I mean, there was obviously tension, and were just roommates, really, at that point, as the best way that I could describe it. We had Olivia. She was one. I was so young when I had her. I found out I was pregnant on my 21st birthday. 

 Josh Wilson
 That's a terrible birthday. I mean, I live the kids, right? 

 Lorna
 I'm a designated driver on my birthday. Live celebration. 

 Ronnie
 It was terrible. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, it was terrible. 

 Ronnie
 That was a great time for me. 

 Lorna
 Were both young, and I felt like I never was, like, going graduating high school, going straight into a marriage, having a rough upbringing. I felt like I never figured out who I was. It was just like morna. Not a mom, not a wife, not a daughter. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 You just don't know. You get so caught up in for me, trying to provide, flofr the family, trying to go through medical school, fire school, trying to establish myself in that career that you just start working hard and busting your b***. Meanwhile, you're focusing one thing and losing another that's more important. At a young age, you really don't think about that. You just think about just getting started and providing. 

 Josh Wilson
 I can hear it in your voices. When you were talking about stepping out of the marriage and having a fair live, I could sense the pain and the nervousness to talk about it. Do you guys feel okay talking about it more? Because I think it's helpful for other married couples out there to hear this from both perspectives, and it terrifies me to talk about it because I'm scared. Right? 

 Ronnie
 No. 

 Josh Wilson
 So high school sweethearts, super young. You guys get married or 21st birthday, you find out you're pregnant with your first child, having kids, throw a monkey wrench in there. You said you guys dropped your guard. You said it perfectly. I was focusing one thing, but losing another. Walk us through the process of affairs. Walk us through what happens maybe from the female side and then from the guys side. 

 Lorna
 Okay. Yeah. Again, being with one person since I was 15, never really experiencing what it's like to have attention from another mail or date or all of that. I wouldn't say really the minute, but through the relationship working twelve hour shift and the attention that I was getting, it was nice. You get the new feeling, the excitement again. Of course he always reassured me that I was beautiful and it also has to do with lack of self image and love. I feel like that has a big role and infidelity and so getting outside attention that someone else thought I was beautiful. The excitement kind of all just started there. He was also married at the time. His wife was pregnant. It was just a really awful situation. Also at the time I felt like I was so naive to think of the effect that it would have long term in my marriage and honestly on their marriage too. 

 Lorna
 I often think about it time to time live how awful it would be to find out that your husband is having an affair and you're eight months pregnant. Yeah. It tears me up that I played a part in that, especially being on the receiving end. That's honestly something that I deal with day to day, just knowing that I played a role in that. 

 Josh Wilson
 I get it, Ronnie. I'm miked up and if I try to undo it's going to make a lot of noise. We grab those tissues over there and then dive back in and we're just going to keep rolling. Yeah. Naive. What an interesting word. Unaware of what this is going to the cause and effects of it. When it comes to being naive, what was going through your head, your heart? Because at first the temptation comes and it's exciting. Well, someone's paying attention to me, I might not be getting that at home, but what was going through your heart? Were you nervous about this? Were you concerned? Were you fearful? What was going through your heart? 

 Lorna
 No, honestly, I wasn't fearful. I think I was just so wrapped up in it. It's so crazy because 22 year olds, me versus me now and my thought process and how much I evolved. I think now I was just so selfish and my thinking and my actions and I just really don't think that I grasp like how much of a bombshell this could be to myself, my children, their families, our friends, just it affects every part of your life. And so I had no fear. I did have a fear. I mean, I was fearful that I would find or that I would be found out and that relationship would have to end live. That's just how selfish I was. Really. It as far as feelings in that moment, I think I was just so naive. I just really had no idea. 

 Josh Wilson
 Sure. So, Ronnie, while this was going on, you said you also stepped out into an affair. What did that look like? 

 Ronnie
 Honestly, the same thing. Just getting that attention that I wasn't getting at home and working those long shifts and being around the same people and just not really thinking and not being mature. Like London said, not really thinking of how it affects other people. Not just you or the other person involved, but that marriage, that relationship, that other family, and then also your family, because at the time, Olivia was one. And then the long term effects. We're married for 14 years, and just three years ago, we really talked about it and hashed it out. Our marriage has been on the up and up since then, but it took us at least ten years to get to that point. But, it's just like I said, it's the newness and just the naiveness of not knowing and being selfish. You're young and you're working and you're providing, and you're just focused one thing and losing another and just not even knowing it, ? 

 Ronnie
 At the time, it was fun because I just didn't really know what I was doing or getting myself into. But it was just that adrenaline rush. When Laura told me about hers, I remember the day like it was yesterday. I was angry, upset, but we never really spoke about it. 

 Lorna
 No. 

 Ronnie
 We had great makeup sex. 

 Josh Wilson
 Because it comes from anger. 

 Ronnie
 Anger and just from emotions. 

 Josh Wilson
 I think that's a lot of people lack emotions in sex, where it becomes routine or it's on the schedule for sex and you lack emotions. I think that's why make ups sex is actually baffled. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, it really is the best sex. 

 Josh Wilson
 I start fights just to get right. 

 Lorna
 It's the best. 

 Ronnie
 Just not knowing, just kind of brushing it under the rug and saying, okay, well, you did that. I did this too, and we're even. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. Which is kind of how I found out. I never really I think because they both kind of came out at the same time, our immediate response was we'd always talked about moving to Tennessee, because that's where my dad and my Kristopher Kluver. They had been up there for a few years, and we always had the itch. For us, this is like, all right, this is our way out. Pulling the trigger. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Lorna
 We're fleeing. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 I was at the point where I was kind of getting burned out working in the job that I was working in, EMS, and it just seemed like the right time. I had an opportunity to work with Lorna's uncle in Tennessee, and we just literally just pulled the trigger. 

 Lorna
 It was easier to run than face. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. You guys are speaking to the master runner, right? My daughter's nine, and she's lived in live seven different homes. Running is definitely it feels like it's easier, but it causes a lot of issues. 

 Ronnie
 Oh, yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 Confronting the true issues at hand. 

 Lorna
 Absolutely. 

 Josh Wilson
 You were actually the one that came to Ronnie and said, hey, just let you know I've been having an affair. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, story gets pretty bad. His wife was actually in labor when all of it came out. I just remember I got a text in the middle of the night and it just said, she knows. I was just like, f***, s***'s about to hit the fan. I was just like, I have to tell him before he finds out another way. Obviously, the wife is very upset. She was threatening to come to my house. I was like, I need to get ahead of this before damage control, pretty much, I need to get ahead of this. I told them, and honestly, I feel like I've locked that part out because I don't really remember much after receiving that text and telling him. I really don't remember much of that day other than just live being terrified of what was to come from her, our marriage, my job, because people, they had suspicions and they had asked, we denied. 

 Lorna
 We are very close friends with the office manager there at my job. And so, again, it affects friendship. Just so many different aspects of your life that you just don't really think about. Obviously our daughter and all of that, and were struggling financially. I mean, were 22. He was at the county. I was working the front desk at a doctor's office. Were struggling financially too, and I was terrified of losing my job. 

 Josh Wilson
 So this damage control, right? We could keep it under the rug. We could keep it hidden until we're about to be found out. If I'm about to be found out, then I've got to get ahead of it, right? 

 Ronnie
 Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 If you didn't receive that text or in the middle and I'll switch over to him. I'll give you a minute to him. While in an affair, it's exciting, right? It's a new adventure. It's a break from routine, and there's actual desire. Live sometimes in marriage, oftentimes in marriage, you feel like it becomes mundane, right? Something new, a new flavor comes in, and it brings excitement. What was going on during what was going through your heads and hearts during the affair, while it was going on? How long did these affairs last? Just give me some. 

 Ronnie
 Mine was only like a month or two. 

 Josh Wilson
 Okay. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah. Not very long. 

 Lorna
 Mine was a little bit longer. It was probably six months. Yeah, it had been a while. Honestly, there was just a lot of sneaky and having to keep up with lies. And when were on lunch breaks. It was just constant, like, what is the word? Live, trying to be incognito. Right. Trying to hide that from our coworkers, but also trying to hide it at home and suggest the pressure of that too. There was a lot of yeah, I. 

 Josh Wilson
 Imagine when in the middle of an affair, what's the relationship like between you two? 

 Lorna
 There really was no relationship. 

 Ronnie
 Roommates. Roommates just doing life and just trying to survive and no communication, nothing. 

 Lorna
 Just our sex was I mean, it was there, but it wasn't or what it was. Prior to the affair. 

 Josh Wilson
 You mentioned selfish is the word that you guys use, like naive and selfish bombshell. What did the devastation external to you guys? Right. Because we could think like, oh, it's just going to hurt my spouse if I tell him or her. You said it happened to friends, families, jobs, live there was a bombshell. What did that look like? 

 Ronnie
 Well, it was stressful, but I think I just was at the point to where we live in a really small town, so I was live. I don't want people to find out and then have to go to work and see those people and deal with the embarrassment and stuff on both ends. I just wanted to get out ASAP. And I was angry. I was angry to the point where I researched and got an address and I was going to go and confront the guy, but then I had to think about my daughter and is it really worth it? Because at that point, my daughter was the only one that I really cared about and not losing her. So, yeah, just live, just wanting to run as fast as possible. 

 Josh Wilson
 While you're angry and you find this out, you're also doing the same thing in your head. Live, you're doing that which you're angry for someone else. What was going on there? 

 Ronnie
 I think that I did have that in the back of my mind too. The extent of the anger, it was partly because Lorna had came out, but I think most of it was because of my guilt and my infidelity and me stepping out and knowing better. Live. You asked what did it feel like in the affair? Well, it felt wrong. I knew deep down aside, I mean, obviously I shouldn't have been doing this, but it was just live, just unbreakable. It felt like, I guess like an addiction where you just wanted to see what was on the back end of that relationship, not really thinking of losing the main relationship, ? 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. So you said, okay, me too. Right. What was your feelings? What was your response? 

 Lorna
 At first, I didn't believe him. 

 Josh Wilson
 You thought it was just me. 

 Lorna
 I'm like, okay, you're just saying this to get back at me. And he was like, no, I'm serious. And I was upset, I was p*****. I was crying, but I also was just like, okay, well, now we're even. Live. Even. Score. Right. 

 Josh Wilson
 Was there almost a relief that both people were kind of doing? 

 Lorna
 Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 It's just, like, maybe reduced guilt . Live. We're both susceptible to it. 

 Lorna
 Yes. Okay. Well, selfishly, it made me feel better about my decision to step out along with the anger. And how could you? 

 Ronnie
 Sure, yes, it was a relief, but in my mind, there kind of wasn't a relief because I was thinking, well, since we're both even, where do we go from here? Do we both go our separate ways? We got to figure out the whole custody thing with our daughter and do that, because at first I didn't want to tell her. I just wanted to keep it in. But, I mean, obviously that's not healthy in a marriage and in a relationship to get to the point of where we are today, you just have to be honest and truthful, and that's tough. That's super tough. 

 Josh Wilson
 This is something I want to ask, but it also makes me nervous to ask. Right. Leading up to it, there's signs that things are going on. Uncover yourself in walking into it live. What are some of the things that the signs of an affair leading up to an affair? People can go, oh, I might be stepping into it, and I'm naive, and they hear this and they go, Maybe I could course correct. Right. How do an affair is either happening to your spouse or that you're walking into it and you're walking into darkness? Does that question make sense? 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, it does. Okay, so let me just bring it back . So we wanted to run. We moved to Tennessee. We are financially broke, no money in the bank, working with Lorna's uncle and her dad, and at the hospital, three jobs. She's staying at home with our daughter and just living with her stepmom and dad in the basement in Tennessee. That brought on another burden for us. A couple of months of being in Tennessee, lauren starts working. I felt uneasy and uncomfortable with her going back to work just because of the experience that we had just went through. So I always had my guard up. You just get stuck in that rut again, and then you start seeing the signs of lack of communication, hiding the cell phone when she's texting or calling or just being upset with me for no reason. I was to the point to where I was trying to rely heavily on God at that time. 

 Ronnie
 I feel like he gave me a vision of where I could just look at Lorna and I was just looking right through her in her eyes, and she just wasn't there. And I just knew something was wrong. It happened again in Tennessee, and I think that was my breaking point of either hanging on or calling it quits. Those signs are not easy to spot, but if you are really paying attention and obviously I wasn't cheating at the time when were in Tennessee, so I was more aware of that, of the signs versus me doing my own thing on the side and not really caring or paying attention and then her just going on to me going on and just being roommates. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. I think hiding the phone, not knowing your spouse's passcode, just live very secretive. I think that's a huge red flag. I also feel like if you have a healthy sex life and you notice a strain or a difference in your sex life, which we've always had a very healthy sex life outside of affairs and then when affairs were going on, I feel like that's probably one of the first places you feel it and see it. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. Sex and marriage, sex outside of the marriage. I do want to come back, so maybe hold on to that question. What are some live uncover yourself. It's like, what are some signs that as you were hiding or as you were walking into an affair and you mentioned being naive. Looking back, you go, oh, I see these signs in myself. What are signs for yourself that you're walking into an affair? 

 Ronnie
 I think for me, my personality is extremely outgoing. I think to females it can come off as me flirting and want them to grab their attention. Now I can sense live, okay, I need to dial it back so I don't give the wrong impression and it doesn't turn into something that obviously it shouldn't be. I've had to learn that over the years. So it wasn't always like that. I was just like, well, that's just me. I'm not changing who I am for Lorna or anybody because that's just my personality. You do have to set some boundaries if you want to be successful in your marriage. 

 Josh Wilson
 You're outgoing and someone takes it as being flirtatious or gaining attention, and then it leads to the next step for you. Was it a gradual walking into it or was it a holy moly that just happened? Where did that come from? 

 Ronnie
 No, it was definitely gradual, like text messaging and hiding my phone or carrying it on me everywhere I went in the house. Or just being super protective and changing passcode and not allowing her to have access to my stuff so she can see and you don't realize it, but it's all part of that. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, mine, it was gradual. It started off with conversations at work, and then you would go to lunch with other coworkers and then you would exchange phone numbers. It would be like, hey, how are you? It would be like, oh, I miss you. I didn't see it work. Today I really missed you. It just gradually goes from there. You're spending more like one one time your lunch break or live going to his house on your lunch break and then just one thing leads to another. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, it can happen really fast. Now, personally, I'm insecure and I'm a jealous guy. Right. My wife is not jealous at all. If I walked through this, man, I would really have a hard time with my own insecurities and my jealousy. How do you work through that? Because you guys have reconciled and now sharing the story, and you have a desire to help other couples find reconciliation through God and through these kind of tough conversations. How do you get over the insecurity or jealousy? Because for me, that's on the guy that's jealous. Right. Who's more jealous out of you guys? 

 Lorna
 I think definitely me, for sure. 

 Josh Wilson
 Okay, so then you and I are probably similar. How do you work through that when he was cheating? 

 Ronnie
 Live. 

 Josh Wilson
 How do you work through your own insecurities and jealousy there? 

 Lorna
 Yeah. You definitely don't ever get over it. I think just being honest about those feelings whenever they come and just having that real conversation like, hey, this is making me this relationship or the situation or what you did is making me feel very insecure. I think because we've both been on the receiving end, it's probably better for him to understand and empathize where I'm coming from. We say this all the time, live. Had we both not stepped out, I don't know that our marriage would have survived. It's got to be a lot harder for it to be like a one sided thing to me. I feel like if Ronnie was the only one to step out and I was on the receiving end only, that probably would have been a lot harder for me to work through. Sure. Just because you don't know what that person is feeling until you've actually walked in their shoes. 

 Lorna
 Right. Like that infamous thing. For us to have both walked that path and know exactly what it's like to be the one that's stepping out and on the receiving end has allowed us to work through those insecurities together and strongly. I feel like that's just created a really good bond. I would say, honestly, just honest communication is probably key. 

 Josh Wilson
 That's good. Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 I was always like, when she would bring up those insecurities, I was always like, stop, you're just reading too much into it and not really live stepping back and getting a different perspective and being respectful to her feelings and thoughts and actually saying, what? I do need a dollar back, or I need to change this or work on that so I can make her feel comfortable. Because my mindset wasn't to better our marriage at the time. It was just to get through it. Now I'm to the point where I don't care what anybody else this I'm gonna respect my wife, and I'm gonna do what I have to do to make sure that she's comfortable, because she's the one that matters, not anybody else, so I'm going to listen to her when she says that she's uncomfortable in the situation that I'm in. When she's honest with me about her feelings, it reassures me, because then I can be honest with her when it comes to my feelings, which is not easy as a guy for me, I just bottled everything in, and I don't like talking about my feelings, but that's changed in the last couple of years. 

 Lorna
 If you're having those honest, hard conversations, it's healthy. It's so healthy to just have those conversations. We apply this to our children, too. We want to have those are not unhealthy, those uncomfortable talks about sex and boys and all of those things. Because growing up, we didn't talk about that. My dad stepped out on my mom. I remember we all had a family meeting and they told us about the affair, and that was it. That was it. We never really talked about it more. My dad had the affair. Your dad stepped out. I remember it was like two weeks before I was supposed to start high school. I was devastated, obviously. But then that was it. We just kind of, like, brushed it under the rug and never really dial with the issue. I felt like that carried on into our marriage. It was live, so much easier for us to just sleep on under the rugs, move to Tennessee, brand new beginning, brand new setting, scenery, act like everything is okay. 

 Lorna
 We never actually had those hard conversations and dealt with the issue. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 Bringing it back to childhood, I feel like that plays an important role on the mindset, the experiences and stuff that you carry on through your relationships as you get older. Because I'm sure that when your dad stepped out, that had an effect on you mentally. I think that was around the time we started dating and were spending a lot of time together, because my thought was I could see the struggle and see the frustration in her family. I just thought, hey, I could probably help in this situation and maybe come to her rescue. Obviously we're in love, but I think that was the push of us getting married so young, was to get her out of the situation that she was in and just going from there. But I think childhood and the bringing. 

 Josh Wilson
 Up to place an important role, it's amazing. You saw what an affair did to a family. Right. As I'm learning more about life and psychology, the things that we're most afraid of or running from typically catch up to. 

 Ronnie
 US. Exactly. 

 Josh Wilson
 Right. I was so afraid financially about life and business and such like that, and I worked so hard to make money that I wound up going bankrupt. That was my greatest fear in the business world. Right. And it caught me. When you run from something or brush it under the rug, it ended up catching you. You guys ran into Tennessee, but it followed you. There was still some issues that were unresolved, for sure. Sex outside of the boundaries of marriage. What are some of the differences? Is it more exciting? Is it new? Is it the variety? It's leading with guilt, shame? What are some of the things that you guys expect? This is a really awkward conversation, just to let you know, I love this and that's my love language. It's awkward, but I'm sorry to bring it up if it's uncomfortable, but I think that no, this is good to. 

 Ronnie
 People need to know. Yeah. Sex outside of the marriage yes, it's exciting. It's not different. A v***** is a v***** and a b***'s, a bud and boozer b****, they all vary in sizes, and maybe some feel different than others, but it's just when you're married and you have sex and you have that connection, you just really know. You just know. You just feel it. You're connecting. You're kissing and rubbing and your skin on skin, and you appreciate it. Sex outside of marriage is just like, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. I'll see you tomorrow or next week. I don't think there's really any connection there, because if the other person is married or in a relationship, how can you have that connection? You really can, because in the back of your mind, it should be thinking, live, I'm going to ruin all these relationships, and I'm going to ruin my marriage for this. 

 Ronnie
 I don't know. It's a whole different ballgame, I guess. Sex inside a marriage versus outside of marriage. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. There was no emotional connection to my affairs. It was all just live, very physical. I never orgasmed with any of them. It was very just like onesided. It was just like I was there to please him. That was it. It was probably a hesitation on my part, too, because there was a level of comfort with my husband. He knows my spots. He knows what I like. It is awkward. It is awkward starting out, I don't think we really had the opportunity to have sex very often, and so those interactions were far and few, and so it takes time to build up that level of comfort. It was very awkward. It was not pleasing to me whatsoever. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, I think that's part of the appeal. You get married. I've been married 13 years, and I love my wife and she's beautiful, and there's other beautiful people in this world. In my head, my croc brain is going, oh, that would feel different. 

 Ronnie
 Right. 

 Josh Wilson
 That would be more exciting. That would never get old or let's add this or that, right? My brain is I have a hard time with contentment in a marriage. What's some advice that you have for other married couples to prevent themselves from an affair? Put up boundaries, put up some guards. Live what advice do you have for other married couples? Let's start with you, Lana. 

 Lorna
 Okay. I would say to us, it's like access to our phone. Live. I know his passcode, he knows mine. Phones are never off limits. If you want to see my phone at any point in time, you have access to it. Also feel like if there are I don't personally text a Gmail unless he knows about it. Now, I've been a stay at home mom for eight years, so live my interactions with Gmail are they're very limited. It's normally just like a couple of friends that we have. Getting into this industry of real estate, I know that's going to change. I'm not going to lie. It makes me nervous. It's been a long time since not nervous on my end as far as my interactions with other males, just the whole working together and seeing how he internet with in a professional manner with other females and him having those conversations with females because, yes, he goes to work, but I don't see it. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. To see him in those situations, it makes me nervous. Sure. I would also say social media, too. Social media is so josh such a double edged sword. Really great. And then it's also really bad. It's also been a very big pain point in our marriage, more so on Ronnie's end than mine. It probably is still a pain point in our marriage, if I'm being honest. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Lorna
 I don't know that I fully trust him with social media. 

 Ronnie
 It's just a pain point because of not having that respect for my wife and seeing half naked women on social media can catch any guy's attention. They just throw that stuff out there. I really think but if I'm looking at that or if I like a picture or whatever, she's going to see that and that's going to cause a whole big deal, which I can't blame her. For me to learn that was not tough, but it was just like, it doesn't matter, I'm never going to meet that chick, so what does it matter to you? But it's just more of the respect. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, that's what I was going to say. 

 Ronnie
 That comfort and building that trust from Lorna to me. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. For me, being the insecure one. Right. I'm insecure. I'm more of the jealous one. I'm wondering where's my wife's head at, if she's scrolling or looking or something like that. I have to look at myself and go, do I have trust? Do I have trust issues? Social media, I think is definitely a challenge. I can't handle social media. I'm not strong enough. I deleted it because I would look at b**** and butts all day. Far too easy. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, it is. I have an active Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, but I don't really get on it. Anytime she posts anything, it's usually the kids. I'm like, hey, just tag me in it so if I do log on, I can see it and save it or whatever. I've kind of taken a hiatus for the last couple of years from Facebook and have made my interactions on that minimal. And that has helped. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, I think it's just so funny how men and women are wired differently. When you were asking about the sex and the affair and how was it I could have done away with all the sex, to be honest. It was more of like just the attention and the connection with someone who seemed interested in what I was doing day today and that he missed me. It was more of like that connection than it was live a physical. I mean, I wouldn't say it was nice, but it was nice, but it was more like that connection. Bringing that back to social media, it's very easy for me to have social media and be on it. I could see a guy soaking wet, half naked in a six pack and I'm like, oh, okay. I'm not like, oh my gosh. Or I feel like if the rules were reversed, it probably be a lot more tempting for him to stay here, look, or check out more, scroll up. 

 Ronnie
 And then scroll back down and just. 

 Lorna
 Keep writing, versus getting a DM from a guy that's just like, hey, just thinking about you, or you look so cute in that post. Whatever. That would be more tempting to me than what I see posted. 

 Josh Wilson
 It is interesting how people are wired. I'm more of the physical and visual. Right. To me, that is strong. For the woman, it's more emotional. My wife was saying this the other day. She's like, I don't really care. She's like, yeah, I like to see strong bodies and stuff like that. She's like, it's not the same as you see a b*** versus. 

 Lorna
 Six pack. 

 Josh Wilson
 Exactly. Yeah. When it comes to you guys go to Tennessee, running away happens again. You said that was the turning point in the marriage. What did the turning point live? We're either going to make it and we got to work through some stuff or let's call it quits. Was that kind of breaking point? 

 Ronnie
 I actually didn't know 100%. I just had a feeling that something was going on in Tennessee. 

 Lorna
 Honestly, he thought of it very quickly. 

 Ronnie
 Because I was on high alert and I was just, I guess, more aware and had my guard up. That allowed me to really pay attention. Not knowing it then, but talking about it now, it's like, man, that was pretty d*** good. 

 Lorna
 He'd actually live questioned before it was ever really a thing. I think at this point, we really were just like new coworkers talking. 

 Ronnie
 And I saw him, and I'm like. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, it was that. 

 Ronnie
 I was like, I don't like that. 

 Lorna
 I was like, why are you asking? At that point, the coworker and I had acknowledged each other, and there was conversations. I think in my heart I knew it could happen just by the conversations were having. At that point, no live were crossed. I remember he picked me up for lunch one day, and the coworker walked out a few seconds behind me. And he was like, who is that? I was like, why are you asking? And he was like, who is that? And I'm like, he's a coworker. He was like, I don't like him. I was like, you don't even know him. 

 Ronnie
 I remember that. I'm like, I don't have to know him. But my adrenaline was just live pumping. I was just, like, angry because I just had a meeting. We just moved on or whatever. And then she started acting different. It's going on for months, but it got to the point to where we just did not have a relationship at all. 

 Lorna
 Ian Hill tell you sorry. This affair to me was way deeper than the one in Florida. I was ready to walk out on my marriage and be done. There was more of, like an emotional relationship there. It was physical, but there was a lot of like, I enjoyed spending time with him. I could be picking up dog s*** on the side of the road, and I wouldn't care because were doing it together. It was live. That much of a connection for me. I remember just being okay with walking away from my marriage. I was not okay with being away from my daughter. To kind of, like, tie it back when everything had come out, my dad was actually the one who caught me in the affair. 

 Josh Wilson
 That's got to be awkward. 

 Lorna
 It was very awkward. Bringing it back to that night so I was actually at his house, and were dirt poor. We shared one car. And so Ronnie was at work. He had picked Olivia up, and I had went to the gym after work. Really? I was at his house, and I was driving my dad's work van because that was the only means of transportation we had at the time. My dad had called me, and he was like, hey, I need my work van. Where are you? I was like, oh, I'm at the gym. He was like, no, you're not, because I'm in the parking lot and I don't see the car. And I'm like, yes, I am. And he's like, no, you're not. I feel like at this point, my dad had probably had a suspicion too, because I was getting home really late. We lived with him, and I'm sure he knew the signs as well. 

 Lorna
 He was like, Where are you, Lorna? I was just like, S***, s***'s. About to hit the fan again. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Lorna
 And then yeah, everything just came out. I got to tell him. 

 Ronnie
 Well, you told your dad. Yeah, but she didn't tell me. 

 Lorna
 No. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 At that point, I was just done. I called my mom. I was at work at the hospital, called. I said, mom will come back to Tennessee, and I'm leaving Tennessee, going back to Florida, and it's just going to be me and Olivia. So I did. I packed up our stuff and me and Olivia went and we left. I told Laura I was going to give her some time to really think about what she wanted. I just told her, I said, listen, this relationship that you think you're having, it's going to get old, and the connect is not going to be there forever. You need to make sure that this is really what you want, because once I'm gone and we're done. And so I had to be starting. It hurt the show. I mean, I was upset. I was angry. I literally cried the whole way from Tennessee to Florida with my daughter. 

 Ronnie
 I listened to Warren Barrfield song called Love Is Not a Fight the whole way. That literally gave me the strength, the motivation to try to fix my marriage. Ultimately, it was Lorna's decision if she wanted to try or not. I had to give her space, and it was not easy. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. So, like I said, I was so emotionally invested into this relationship, into the affair, I was almost, like, numb to what was going on around me. Live. It hurts that my daughter was in Florida. They celebrated her second birthday in Florida without me. That was a pain point for me. I also spent that entire weekend with him. Went and did and went out to dinner. I spent the night at his house. I was just so consumed with that affair that I literally almost didn't think twice about my family being down in Florida, my husband being down in Florida. I remember I got a phone call from one of my friends, and she was just like, Where are you? I'm like, I'm at my coworker's house. She's just like, Ronnie is freaking out. He's blowing up my phone. You need to answer your phone. I remember I was just like, he's on his way to Tennessee, right? 

 Lorna
 New York. Need to get home. I just remember thinking live, oh, it's about to hit the fan again. I hurry up and I get to the house. At the time, he doesn't know where I was. He thought that I'd been at the house the whole time. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 I had been calling, and I was like, all right. I was like, she's not answering. I don't know where she is. I knew her parents were out of town, so she had the house flofr herself. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to drive Tennessee. I'm just going to go through the night. That was probably the fastest trip I've taken to Tennessee in a long time. I was kind of hoping, but not hoping that I would cast them together just because I wanted to kill them. Honestly, both of them. I had so much anger. Yeah. And so got to Tennessee. 

 Lorna
 My dad and his wife at the time and my sisters, they'd left and gone out of town. My dad was not speaking to me. He was p***** live just so p***** at me. So I was literally all alone. I had no financial resource besides what I was making. Live $9 or $10 an hour at the time. My dad was just like, we're done. You can't live here anymore. You've got to get out. You got to figure it out. I just remember thinking, what am I going to do? I don't want to be married. Ronnie's in my daughter's in Florida. I have no choice but to go down to Florida. I reluctantly went back down to Florida. Didn't want to be there, did not want to be married. Living with my in law, I was at the lowest point in my life still continuing a relationship with my coworker. 

 Lorna
 You're speaking not as much as were, but there was still a relationship, and it probably took a month or two, and he's actually the one who was just like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore, man. It was hard. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, it's definitely not easy to talk about. There was a point, though, he called it off, and there was a point because you didn't want to be married, and I'm sure you were done. 

 Ronnie
 I was done. I was just going through it because I think if we didn't have Olivia, who's our oldest now, we would have been done a lot sooner. She honestly was my strength in driving to Florida and keeping it together. She really did. She did it for me. 

 Josh Wilson
 At some point, you said, I need to fight for this marriage. What sparked that? Rather than to just say peace, let's figure out how to cohabitate or separate, at what point did you guys say, let's fight for this. This is worth saving? 

 Lorna
 I think for me, it was several things. I think it was finally me realizing this newness that I was chasing is pleading live not here to stay. No matter what form of relationship I'm in, I will always be Channing tablet new meeting. Like, how unrealistic for myself, for my daughter at the time. What kind of example and expectations am I setting for her by constantly being in this revolving door of live, just searching for that good feeling? It also made me realize that I had some major internal work to do, because why am I chasing? Why am I lacking such content with who I am and who I'm married to? Then, honestly, just the idea of someone else, another female, stepping into my role as Live step mom and seeing her with my husband and live stepping into that role also live it killed me. 

 Lorna
 It pained me more than it pained me to end that relationship and make my marriage work or give up on my marriage. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Ronnie
 I think that's what tamed me also was just like, I don't want to see another guy raise my daughter, and I'll be damned if I let that happen. So that was a push for me. Fighting for our marriage was for that reason, not knowing that fighting for the last couple of years after that point or the next couple of years after that point will allow our relationship to get stronger and our marriage to get stronger. But, yeah, that did it for me, too. 

 Josh Wilson
 You guys had a breaking point. You shared of the story. You had a breaking point where you just let it all out. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 Walk us through that. You're back in Florida. 

 Lorna
 We're back in Florida. We have 2019 or something around 2020. 

 Ronnie
 Yes, that's right. 

 Josh Wilson
 Because Coach will bring out some s***. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, man. We had two more kids, and we had Emma, our middle, and then Teekan, our youngest. Leading up to that conversation, I'd always denied having a sexual relationship with my second coworker. I could never be honest just because of the pain that I knew it would bring. 

 Josh Wilson
 Sure. 

 Lorna
 He'd asked me so many times, especially when it first came out, live, did you have sex with him? What did you do? And I was just like, no. We just talked and hung out. I would go to his house, and he would play his guitar for me and sing to me. That was it. There was never anything sexual, and I'm. 

 Ronnie
 Not an idiot, but I just needed to hear from her. 

 Lorna
 He would still ask me from time to time, live, are you sure you never had sex with your coworker? And I'm like, yes, I promise. Live I never did. I don't know what the argument was about, but were in an argument, and it was a heavy yeah, it was like a heated argument. Live we had shut the door, and were just like, you're screaming at each other. 

 Ronnie
 I honestly can't remember what brought it on. I don't know if it was like, you did something. I'm like, Why did you just do that? That p***** me off. And she's like, well, why? Because it just did. I was like, that's not the only thing that I'm angry about with you. 

 Lorna
 The affair was brought up and he was like, I'm live. Well, you want to know something? I did have sex with my coworker. He was just like, I knew it. I f****** knew it. I knew it. It was just like a weight had been lifted off of me. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, we screamed at each other, we yelled. I got frustrated, I got angry. I started asking questions. Because you hear something like that and being married for at the time, what, ten years? Eleven years. You want to know the details? You want to know? Okay, what did he do that I don't do? Or that I do? Or how did it feel? Did you guys push? Yeah, everything. 

 Lorna
 The nitty gritty. Like he wanted every detail. 

 Ronnie
 And that will happen. I mean, for somebody that has gone through an affair and if you're on the receiving end, it's okay to ask questions live. Ask those questions because that's going to not necessarily make you feel better, but keep the thought process and the guessing and the wondering. Have that honest conversation. It was tough, but so we argued, slammed doors and yelled at each other, cursed. I stormed out, went into the garage, did a workout and it was like an hour. She came out and we just hugged and cried. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, I just remember we sobbed so much. I think that it was just like all of that s*** that we have just been sleeping underneath our rug for all of those years live. It all just came out and it was just like vomit. And we couldn't stop talking. We couldn't stop crying live. It was just the most healthiest conversation. Uncomfortable, but live. The most healthiest conversation we had. And you want to talk about amazing. 

 Ronnie
 It still is. I'm telling you what though, from that point on, the connect that we. 

 Josh Wilson
 Had, your face got a little red. 

 Ronnie
 The connection that we had really made me realize it's not just sex, it's the connection. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, totally. 

 Ronnie
 And it's live. The feeling and the emotions. Because when you're trying to have sex, you're not connected. It's just sex. 

 Lorna
 I feel like we're hypersensitive now. Live in our sex. Live. It's like we almost know live going into this live. Alright, something is off. You just feel it when you're just live. Not vibing or you're not connected, but then when you are, you're like, oh yeah, it's going to be good. I feel like that's just so important to have outside of affairs. Just to have that connection and to talk about it. Talk about what you like and what you don't like and what you want, your desire. You know, all about fantasies. 

 Ronnie
 I've been trying to get lorna for us to make a sex tape, but she will not do that. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, I think I draw the line there. I'm like, no, I have too many tattoos. Our friends will recognize me. They'll know. They'll be like, wait a second. I know this. I know who this is. 

 Ronnie
 You can make some COVID money. But yeah, just be honest. Have those conversations. Communicate. Communicate and build that trust. Also, I wrote down here, not verbal, but actions show love. It's not you saying, honey, you look beautiful today, or wow. Like, man, those words don't mean love. That's lust. It's the actions of honey, what can I help you with around the house? Or can I do something for you live? What actions can I do for you or to you that show you that I love you? 

 Lorna
 Right. 

 Ronnie
 It's not just saying it, but I feel like and it goes with actions speak louder than words, ? It took me a long time to learn that, but it's true. 

 Josh Wilson
 Your conversations now are probably, like, ten times more deep because of the forced conversations you've had to have in the past when you're hanging out with other couples, right? Do people ask you questions about your conversations or your relationships? What does that look like? Because you guys have gone through stuff, and you're working through stuff. Yeah. And you're an inspiration. Live, coming on a recorded line. Live talking about your stuff. 

 Lorna
 I feel like there are very few of our friends that know the in depth, the marriage. Honestly, I feel like and because it's still so fresh of us evolving and everything coming out, and we didn't feel like we had much to offer live advice wise to friends, because were still just trying to survive. 

 Ronnie
 Figure it out. 

 Lorna
 Figure it out. We were raising three kids at the time. I was dealing with terrible postpartum depression, and we would have really good times, and then our highs would be high, and then our lows would be super low. It was never consistent until we had live that big blowout. 

 Ronnie
 Sorry. One of our blowouts was were driving down to Orlando or somewhere, and she was going through my list of podcasts. Because usually when we drive, we listen to podcast. SOP S, she's flipping through, and she's like, what's this uncensored podcast? I'm like I mean, I don't know. 

 Lorna
 Oh, yeah, I was p*****. 

 Ronnie
 She's like, what my show? 

 Lorna
 Yes. I was like, Are you kidding me? 

 Ronnie
 And I'm like, Laura, it was like. 

 Lorna
 A day, right? We're going to go down Orlando for the day. And I'm like, F*** this. Live, turn around. I don't even want to spend a day with you. I'm like she's like, not even podcast? I'm like, I can't trust you on Instagram, Facebook, and now podcast. 

 Ronnie
 SOP s a big deal. I was like, I'm going to listen to it. I haven't listened to it. I just added it because it sounded. 

 Lorna
 Cool, uncensored for men. 

 Ronnie
 Probably like a month, maybe a couple of months after that, I was mowing the yard. Usually when I mow the yard, I put in headphones and I listen to podcast. SOP s sermon or something like that. I had listened to one of the uncensored ones, and it was when you were sharing your story. I guess you had taken a break for and you were sharing your story and I didn't know it was your podcast at the time. You had mentioned, Ocala firefighter Josh, and I was like, what? That's when I reached out to you. Yeah. So that's when I texted you. I said, dude, I love you, man. It's funny because it might sound a little of a situation for her to look at my podcast and see that uncensored, but it was actually a big deal. That made me realize what may be a little deal to me is a big deal to her. 

 Ronnie
 To build that trust and that comfort is super important. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, he liked off the moor. He was like, babe, yeah, babe, guess what? Do you remember that podcast? 

 Ronnie
 I'm not lying to you. 

 Lorna
 And he was like, It's Josh. And I'm like, what? I'm like, get out of here. No way. I was going to be like, oh, my God, I love this podcast. Yeah, I want to be on it. 

 Ronnie
 That just goes to show live going through what went through, the trust wasn't there and the Insecurities were there to where she would see that. It's like, whoa, what the h*** is this? To go from that to where we are today is just amazing. I feel like marriages and couples who are struggling, there's a light at the end of the tunnel and just you got to push through. If you love each other and you have children and you want to make it work, live, make it work, make that decision and make it work and be openminded, just push through, it's going to be tough. There's going to be highs and lows in between. But keep on pushing. It's worth it, trust me. 

 Josh Wilson
 Great point. I'm sorry to get you guys in the fight. What I love about what you said is in your mind, it might have been little or insignificant, but for you is a big deal. That's happened so many times in my life where I'm like, it's not a big deal. Exactly. Yeah. Or on the flip side, my wife would be like, it's not a big deal. I'm like, well, it is grcarling me right now. 

 Lorna
 Right. 

 Josh Wilson
 Having that respect for each other to go, what do I need to take responsibility for? I heard you say that you're stepping up and live. What am I responsible for here? This is an amazing. Conversation, but we're running out of time. What is a resource? You decided to go, we're going to fight for this. You guys had to blow out in the garage, had to blow out on the way to thing. With every single blowout, you've talked and uncovered the rug. Right? You ripped the rug up and you said, here's all the s*** under the rug that we've been not dealing with. What's a good resource or a good piece of advice for people to lift the rug and to look at the stuff and to dial with it? 

 Ronnie
 I think for me it's more of because people are like, oh, Lord was like, let's go talk to a counselor, or let's go talk to a pastor. And we tried that and got nowhere. I think you just have to make the decision in your mind to really put in the effort and the work to get to know your wife and know her personality type and just study it and learn it, know what triggers her, know what goes on in her mind or try to at least learn it. You'll never know what goes on in your wife's mind, but you can at least try and ask questions and be open and talk and don't hold back. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. There's an amazing book that we've done together. It's called I said this. You heard that? 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, you told me about it, but then we heard about it in our church. This is good. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. Okay, so there's four different temperaments. There's melancholy, there's sanguine, and there's one other one, I can't remember what it is, but there's like red, green, melancholy, melon, snow. I said melancholy. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. Yellow, green, red and blue. I forget which each one was. 

 Lorna
 Yes. I'm melancholy, which is my temperament, is very safe and secure. I'm funny because I'm loyal, but giving my past, it's just funny how you evolve. Right now I feel like I'm probably the most loyal person, friend, wife that I am now because I've evolved and I've learned it's okay to be how I am, live that internal work through that I had to do to figure out why I was always searching for the newness and the new feelings. Once I evolved into that, I'm like, that's so funny. But now I'm such a loyal person. And then he is. Do you remember what your temperament was? 

 Ronnie
 It was lagmatic and not meeting the. 

 Lorna
 Green, which is like, calm. Yeah, you're calm, but also, like, they're very social. I could be left alone for a weekend, like, reading a book and live by myself. I'm having the time of my life. I'm fulfilled that way. He's fulfilled by interacting with human beings totally, most likely all of the time. 

 Josh Wilson
 Right. 

 Lorna
 The balance of that has been very interesting. I think learning are different temperaments and what speaks to him and respect is a really big thing for him. 

 Josh Wilson
 Totally. 

 Lorna
 Learning how I can respect him just in everyday life. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah. 

 Josh Wilson
 So I love to ask this. So thank you for that recommendation. So it's called you said this. I heard that. 

 Lorna
 I said this. You heard that. 

 Ronnie
 Got it. 

 Josh Wilson
 So that's a great book recommendation. Probably have you guys back on at a later date to answer a few more questions. But I like to ask this. There a question that I should have asked you guys that I screwed up and did not ask? Or is there another point that maybe we should have brought up at least today on this interview? 

 Ronnie
 I feel like you did pretty good job. Thanks, man. 

 Josh Wilson
 I think you did great, too. 

 Ronnie
 No, I mean, I think you asked all the good questions and it took off from everything that you asked. 

 Josh Wilson
 So then let's do this. For guys out there who are thinking about an affair, maybe it's right on the verge of it hasn't yet happened from a female perspective. What's your advice? Flofr him? 

 Lorna
 Oh, gosh, that's a heavy question. Don't do it. Obviously the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I think that there's probably some internal work that needs to be done. Maybe take some time and reflect on maybe some issues that they're dealing with internally, things maybe from childhood that they haven't dealt with and really just the energy and the time that they would take. And putting into that affair. Minute meeting to know that new person. Do that to your wife. Date your wife. You would date your mistress. 

 Ronnie
 That's what I want to say live. Get to know your wife and flip the script and put that attention to your wife and not the other person. Do some self searching. I agree. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah, that's good. One of the things we always do I know that this isn't your job. You guys aren't counselors. You guys are friends, and you guys do real estate and work. You felt like you needed to share the story. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, for sure. 

 Josh Wilson
 Why? 

 Lorna
 I feel like because our story is rare, the divorce right now is just crazy for our age group. 

 Josh Wilson
 Yeah. 

 Lorna
 I mean, more of our friends are divorced than they are married, and so I feel like it's so important. The family unit is probably the most powerful thing to the kingdom of God. I feel like that is the number one thing that the enemy tries to attack and bring down, is a healthy marriage and a healthy family. I feel like that stems from how you were raised in generational curses. I feel like if you are dealing with all of that internally and you fix yourself and you love your kids, then that's the last thing the enemy wants. 

 Josh Wilson
 Cool. 

 Ronnie
 I feel like the person that decides to do that will also save their marriage and really not know it, but it's that triangle when your husband and wife focus on God, they come together. I feel like if you focus on yourself and your family and God, you're going to come together with your spouse. 

 Lorna
 Yeah. If we could share a story and inspire people to just work through it, live, have that honest conversation, it is possible. It is possible to work through an affair. It's not the end all. I feel like. People quickly give up when it comes to affairs. They look as live an easy way out or this is my way out. So I'm just going top out. It's going to be hard, but if you put in the work, it's still worth it. Our marriage now probably wouldn't be as healthy and strong as it is today had those affairs not happened. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, sadly, but it's true. I'm not grateful for them, but to get to where we are today, I'm super grateful for everything that happened. 

 Josh Wilson
 So thank you guys for coming. That was super brave. I'm so proud of you guys for doing that. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah, thanks for having us. 

 Josh Wilson
 So, guys, in the audience, I just found this out that my show has caused fights. My suggestion to you guys is talk to your wife. The stuff you're learning here. 

 Ronnie
 Yes. 

 Josh Wilson
 We've interviewed pastors and p*** stars and all kinds of things in between. Talk to your wife about some of the things you're hearing and if you have questions, husbands or wives, just head over to the website and submit your questions or the things that you want to hear more of. We'll go out to the community. Or if you want to talk about it, we'll go out to the community and we'll talk about things that make me feel awkward. That way we can learn and grow together. 

 Lorna
 Yeah, definitely. 

 Ronnie
 Yeah. Reach out. I mean, any questions? I'm not a professional counselor, anything, but if anybody just needs to chitchat with us or whatever, cool. 

 Josh Wilson
 What we can do is we can put your contact information in the show notes or you guys could just ask me and I'll connect you with Ronnie and Lorna. Guys, I love you. We'll talk with you all on the next episode. See you guys. Thank you.