Sept. 21, 2022

Advice From A Pickup Artist with Robbie Kramer


Robbie Kramer has been guiding
men to accomplish their goals
with women, health, fitness, and
career since 2009.

He founded Inner Confidence to
show men exactly how to create
the lifestyle of their dreams in a
way that actually works.

No quick fixes.
No magic pills.
No bullshit.

Just tested, proven and
easily implementable
advice that works.

“Robbie brings dignity and ease to
traditionally taboo interactions. No funny
names, no pickup routines, no fake
stories tricking women into liking you,
just 100% real attraction, emotional
connection and strengthening your inner
confidence. This is the necessary
evolution of so-called pickup arts into
something more meaningful and
organic.”

http://innerconfidence.com

Support the show

Transcript


 00:02

Josh Wilson
Hey, good day, fellas. Welcome to Uncensored advice for men. We love you guys and this shows to bring tough advice for us guys out there. Conversations about sex, relationships, money, belief systems and all these things that we might be struggling with inside. People are brave enough to come on the show and open Kimono to you guys to bring some advice. With that, Robbie, welcome to show man. 


 00:29

Robbie Kramer
Thanks. Great to be here. 


 00:30

Josh Wilson
You're going to give us guys not me, I'm a married dude. You're going to give us guys some advice on dating and maybe the scientific approach to dating, isn't that right? 


 00:41

Robbie Kramer
That's right. I'm also recently married, but I just turned 40, so I was single for a long time and a lot of experience. 


 00:50

Josh Wilson
From a guy who's got a lot of experience and from the past, this was your profession for the idea of dating and we'll go into your story but you're considered a pro dater. 


 01:02

Robbie Kramer
Yeah, you could say that. I've been a dating coach since 2008. It's been a minute now, 14 years, I guess. Wow. 


 01:12

Josh Wilson
All right, so this is exciting. I've never really talked to a dating coach before. Kind of give us an idea on you started in 2008. What did you start out as? Live. You're like you were doing something before in 20 07 20 08 came you're like, I should be a dating coach. What was right in 2007 and why did you become a dating coach? 


 01:31

Robbie Kramer
I was working at an investment bank and I hated my job. I grew up a golf nerd. I wanted to be a pro golfer. When those dreams I realized that wasn't going to be the reality after university. I got a job at an investment bank, worked from nine to never and I did everything I could to avoid work. One of those things was I started studying how to be more confident, how to better with women prior to kind of reading the book from way back in the day called The Game. Not sure if you're aware of that book. Neil Strauss I had no idea that you could actually improve your conference link, improve your success with women. I just always thought live okay, I did okay. I was never like terrible. I had girlfriends and dated cute girls, but I always felt like I was settling and I never really understood that you could actually improve your vonfinch and improve your social skills to make a huge conference link. 


 02:32

Robbie Kramer
At first I read that book and I saw a bunch of other stuff by these quote unquote pickup artists who I thought was kind of inauthentic, weird, canned advice. I didn't really resonate with that stuff very much. I really kind of ran with the idea that you could improve. I had an interesting thing happen to me. I was traveling in France with some friends and a buddy brought over a girl. And this girl was perfect. She was everything that I kind of looked for in a person. She had all the things that guys look for rights and a** and all that stuff. She was smart and kind and funny. The entire trip we started getting closer and she would even sleep in my bed, but she would only cuddle with me. Event name. I tried to kiss her. I guess she didn't give me the FriendLine either, but it was like this weird cuddle zone only. 


 03:30

Robbie Kramer
I figured, well, I have a girlfriend back home and she probably won't hook ups with me because of that. I was kind of meaning to break up with that girl anyways, so I did break up with her and I flew her out to visit me a few months after that. And she stayed with me in La. But it was the same thing. It was still just cuddling. One night I brought her out to a bar and my friend was coming with us who was like a notorious cockblock kind of a guy who banged every girl so you wouldn't want to bring girls around him because he would steal your girl. 


 04:04

Josh Wilson
Jerk. 


 04:05

Robbie Kramer
Yeah, I knew he was coming out that night, but he was bringing a date. I was like, okay, no big deal. He's bringing a date. So we're all at the bar. It was a big group of us. I go down to the bathroom, come back up, and I see at the corner of the bar he's making out with his girl and my girl. Oh, wow. Yeah, like a three way make out party at the bar. I had never seen this girl kiss another guy. She just seemed like the most innocent, pure thing ever. He ended up taking her home with this girl and they had a threesome, and I was completely crushed. It was the biggest punch in the gut ever because I had been working on this girl for months and he just totally swooped her up without even trying. I had seen this guy do this thing over and over and I'm like, what is he doing that I'm not doing? 


 04:59

Robbie Kramer
Why am I trying so hard and not really getting anywhere with the women I'm really attracted to, but I'm only kind of getting the ones I was settling for? That's when I really took this scientific approach to dating. I started tracking everything that I was doing and I realized there were three steps, three big things that were kind of holding me back. The first was my appearance, both my fashion and my physicality. I wasn't fat, but I was chubby. I knew that if I really wanted to be live the best version of myself. If I wanted to date ten, I knew I had to be my own vision of a ten. The first thing I did was I lost a bunch of weight and I really improved my fashion, and that made a pretty big difference. The next thing I did was I realized that I needed to really look at the way I was courting women because I felt like I was chasing them a lot. 


 05:50

Robbie Kramer
I always felt like the ones I really liked, I would get nervous and my conversation skills wouldn't be as good. I would be nervous on dates, I'd be in my head. It wasn't happening with the girls that I was comfortable with. It was totally happening with the ones that I thought were kind of out of my league. I needed to kind of tone down and take a hard look at how much I was investing live. Was I investing more in that interaction or in that dating process than the woman was? I found I was always over investing with the girls I really like texting them too much, chasing them, asking them out all the time. The ones I didn't care about, they were easy, but the ones that I really wanted, I pushed them away. The last thing which really made the biggest difference was I realized that the most beautiful women, they're hard to get to, of course, right. 


 06:46

Robbie Kramer
They've got all sorts of guys chasing them, tons of attention. If you walk into a nightclub or a nightclub is a good example, right? You always see beautiful women at live, these promoter tables or at the table next to DJ, but good luck going over and trying to talk to girls there. Right. There's tons of live velvet rope in front of them. I realized I needed a way to kind of build a social circle that brought women into my life. Because just the idea I could chase them and meet them at the Starbucks. I walked up to many girls I saw on the sidewalk and use some cheesy pickup lines or just be authentic and use a few lines and get their number. It wasn't as effective on the women I really wanted. I built this social funnel, for a lack of a better word. 


 07:33

Robbie Kramer
I kind of looked at my dating life like internet marketing or sales, right? If you're in a sales job, you have a CRM. You track your KPIs, which are key performance indicators. You track your metrics and you find what's working and what's not working. I did that also with my dating life, and that really radically changed everything. I started dating women that were tons of celebrities on Instagram, and later I ended up marrying one who I thought was the cream of the crop. I got out of the game because I was running Playboy parties and throwing yachts in the Maldives after I built this funnel. I can talk more about that too, if you think that'll be interesting. But I basically sewed my wild oats. A damblezerian lifestyle. I was living that for a good live four years almost. Like any hedonistic pleasurable lifestyle, you get bored of it, of course. 


 08:27

Robbie Kramer
It was certainly not boring for the first four years. I was having a ton of fun, but eventually I was live, okay, this lifestyle isn't very sustainable. I was partying too much, and I kind of felt like I'd done everything I needed to do, and now I'm married and I couldn't be happier, and I kind of left all that stuff behind. So that's my story. Hopefully that wasn't too long winded. 


 08:51

Josh Wilson
The three steps you focus on is focus on being the best version of yourself, right? Boosting up your appearance, maybe changing your underwear every once a month or taking a shower, shave. If you're chasing tens, you need to up your game as well. Courting versus chasing. You were spending a lot of time chasing in this situation, and then you're over investing. You found yourself doing. The third is to look at it like a measurable scientific method, right. Live to start to track. Now, what KPIs were you measuring during the time? Like, first bases, five points, second bases, eight points. And how many texts? What KPIs were you using? 


 09:35

Robbie Kramer
I was measuring, first of all, how many women I was talking to live where I met them. There's four ways you can meet women. The first is through your social circle, friends and family. Those are always the best leads because it's a warm lead, right. 


 09:55

Josh Wilson
The credibility, the testimonial. Right? It's like, hey, meet my friend Robbie. Robbie is nice, cool. Okay. 


 10:02

Robbie Kramer
He's cool because my friend is cool and I trust his opinion, right? The second way is you could go out and you can approach them in a non social environment. The guys in the dating community, they call that day game, if you ever heard that expression. It would be like you see a girl at Starbucks and you go up and you chat her up, or you fear walking down the street and you literally stop her on the sidewalk at the gym. Would be a day game scenario as well. The next one is some live social environment. Any bar, nightclub, festival somewhere where people are expecting to meet other people and they go out with the possibility people. It's not weird to approach someone in a bar, but it might be weird to approach someone in a Starbucks. Right? There's that social protocol that we all kind of follow, and we know what's normal and not, right? 


 10:52

Robbie Kramer
It's abnormal to do the day game thing but if you do it in the right way, you can pull it off. The last way is online dating. Of course we all know what that is, dating apps, all that stuff. I was measuring how I was doing in these four areas, which ones were working, which ones weren't. I found online dating was really not working. Really? 


 11:14

Josh Wilson
I thought it was like swipe to hook up, live, those kinds of things. Listen, 2012, I got married to the love of my life. I've been out of that game for a while now. I'm trying to learn how to date my wife and be Peter at that because I lost a lot of my romance with kids. I'd love to hear this because there's a lot of guys in my audience who are taking notes right now. I promise you that. 


 11:38

Robbie Kramer
Good. So, yeah, online dating for me, and I don't really consider myself a terrible looking guy. You're all right. 


 11:46

Josh Wilson
I'd give you eight out of ten. 


 11:47

Robbie Kramer
That's generous. I appreciate that. You're welcome. I would say like 7.5. Whatever. I was just dating way below what I thought I could get in the real world. What happens online dating is it's totally skewed in women's favor because me are already the guys pursuing in the dating market. Sure. Women, especially beautiful women, they just get bombarded with messages, d*** pics, and your relative value in that market right there's a humongous supply. The demand is not that high because the most beautiful and attractive women, they don't really need to use online dating. They go out with their friends that may have a lot of introductions from their warm market. If they're social, they're meeting guys while they're just out and about. I found this with all my clients that the quality for online dating just isn't quite there. Sure, you can use tinder and you can hook up and have one night stands, and if you're an extremely good looking guy, like a model, then you can do well. 


 12:49

Robbie Kramer
For the rest of us who don't have we're not six four with a perfect jawline. Height is a huge thing as well. I'm 59, and so many women are just if they're over five, seven, they're wearing heels. They're not going to date a guy under six foot, so they're meeting out. I found online dating was just not working. I found that going out and doing the nightclub and the bar stuff was okay. I could get decent results with that. It was very taxing and expensive being hungover all the time and just being out and not very good for productivity. I started spending more time actually Dtkcoaching women during the day. I found that to be really helpful and day game. I was totally nervous and scared to do it at first, but once I kind of plugged into a community that where other guys were doing it, and it was the normal thing. 


 13:44

Robbie Kramer
It became easy. It became fun, and it really kind of helped me get over my nice guy syndrome. I don't know if you ever kind of heard about that. I'm sure you have. Yeah. I was afraid to express my interest in women I found really attractive. Just the act of doing this day game, it acted as, like, exposure therapy, just walking up to a beautiful woman and saying, hey, I saw you, and I had to risk embarrassing the h*** out of myself to come over here and meet you. She'll say, hey, I have a boyfriend, or I'm not interested, or, oh, wow. She'll kind of light up like a Christmas tree and say, oh, that's cool. I'll be like, look, you're busy. I can see I got to run too. I'm busy too. How about this? Give me your number. If you don't like me, give me a fake one. 


 14:27

Robbie Kramer
A lot of the time they'd laugh and they'd give me their number just with that short little elevator pitch. I found that if I approached about ten women, I could walk away with one or two numbers like that, which is very good odds. 


 14:43

Josh Wilson
That's a 10% to 20% conversion rate if you got one or two numbers out of ten. 


 14:47

Robbie Kramer
All right, exactly. 


 14:47

Josh Wilson
So this is awesome, right? This is awesome. Because of this, I'm a marketer. I'm a sales guy. We're going to discuss how women might feel about all this in a minute, but from my perspective, live, I can understand. Okay, if that's the case, or other guys might be able to understand. Out of every ten cold calls you're going to get, maybe a 2% conversion to maybe a date or Starbucks event or something, right? Live, you could continue a conversation, build a relationship. It might not all land in the sac or whatever, but that's interesting that you took that approach and you measured and you found the thing that worked best for you is the day game. Your approach wasn't cheesy. You didn't go like, how much does a polar bear weigh? Or some corny pickup line, right? Which is enough to break the ice, by the way. 


 15:38

Josh Wilson
Stupid joke, right? But that's a stupid dead joke. But you were a real human being. You said, hey, I'm risking embarrassing myself. And that shows, like, authenticity. 


 15:51

Robbie Kramer
Exactly. The worst rejection I ever received from that was, sorry I have a boyfriend, or sorry I'm married or I'm really busy. In your head, as a man, you think this terrible thing is going to happen, and this rejection is going to be so crushing, but then you do it a few times, and you even feel good on the ones where you did get rejected because a lot of the time, women will be like, oh, my God, thank you so much. You totally made my day because you're doing it in an authentic way. Like I said, the bonus is you walk away with a phone number and a decent chance to get that woman on a date. That was the second most effective way to meet women. The first was still social circle, that was still through my warm market. What I did once I realized the day game and social circle were the best way is I stopped online dating, which is taking a ton of my time just swiping and messaging. 


 16:48

Robbie Kramer
It was very time consuming and I found that to be true for most clients. They're spending a ton of time using online dating and getting almost no results. Same thing with the bars and club stuff, doing all that. I really focused on how can I put all of my energy into improving my funnels, my social funnel, which I call it. That's where I got very creative and that's where I started really looking for what can I do that is relevant to beautiful women, where I have like a value add in that marketplace and every guy can take a different approach to this and it can be a very creative thing. A lot of guys who are photographers, that's a really easy one, right? If you're a photographer and a lot of guys are becoming photographers this days just for that reason and you start building your portfolio and you offer free photo shoots or you're just in the photography world, you're going to naturally be around beautiful women. 


 17:50

Robbie Kramer
I wasn't in that world, I had no interest in photography. I had a few buddies that were club promoters in New York City. At the time I had some like a side hustle on airbnb. I was a dating coach and I had properties on Airbnb that I would rent out. One of these promoters was running a model house. The business model of that would be he would bring women to a nightclub and he would get paid per head, like $100 per head. His problem was always trying to get the girls to the nightclub because hot girls were flaky and it's very difficult to actually get them to show up. He created a model house where he let women live for free, aspiring models. In return they would have to go out to the nightclubs a certain number of times per week. This is a pretty common thing, but this is one of the first guys to do it. 


 18:40

Robbie Kramer
This is back in 2014. What I did is I gave him one of our Airbnb and I said, listen, you can use this Airbnb, one of my properties that I was using in the Airbnb, you can use it for your model house in exchange for giving me access to all of your tables, all of your events. I got access to all of his events by exchanging the housing. That really transformed everything because I realized once I had access to the most beautiful women, then I really saw all the mistakes I was making. I really saw all that chasing behavior all the way that I was trying to impress them. That's what really turned things around for me in terms of my game, for lack of a better word. I really learned the importance of like mirroring their investment and not over investing and just not getting so excited when a girl that I thought was a nine or a ten was around. 


 19:37

Robbie Kramer
Because when you're not in the presence of those women very often and then you get introduced or you see them out or whatever, you're going to be way more nervous and you're going to just not present the best version of you. What I do a lot with guys as I work with them on these creative ways where they can kind of build their social funnel. And for every guy it's different. Like I said, for me it was just leveraging that housing resource, but that was kind of the overall process and then lots of little intricacies along the way. 


 20:12

Josh Wilson
Let's go through maybe a few other scenarios because there are guys out there who don't have airbnb, they don't have that set up. That seems like a very smart exchange, right? Because the models want a place to live. They want private tables and such like that because they don't want guys hitting on them all day. The club promoter wants beautiful people in their bars and such like that. It seemed like it worked for everybody was getting what they wanted out of the gig. Photography makes absolute sense. One of our tenants back in the day, he was a photographer and there was just always my wife's like, what does he do? I was like, he's taking pictures. There's always live beautiful women around him. That makes sense. What about some other things that maybe a guy doesn't have access to? No camera, no airbnb. What are some other ways? 


 21:03

Robbie Kramer
One this you can do is you could start hosting live weekly parties. Just a simple thing like a dinner party. You can get involved in doing some sporting event parties. By the way, can you hear that background noise? No. 


 21:19

Josh Wilson
What's it sound like? 


 21:20

Robbie Kramer
There's some dog parking. 


 21:22

Josh Wilson
Are you having this huge house party or something going on right now? There's a huge party going on at this house for people listening in. No, you're fine, man. I couldn't hear you. 


 21:34

Robbie Kramer
One thing I recommended so I just helped a client with this and he live in Miami. He lives in Miami and he just wanted to throw live a weekly Wednesday dinner party. He also really enjoyed meeting women during the day, like I recommended. I said here's a good strategy for you. This will work a lot better if you have a wingman or a guy who's willing to kind of do this process with you. Because you can leverage your resources, you could throw these parties together. When you're inviting girls and he's inviting girls, you're working towards the same goal. The beauty of hosting an event is you can control who shows up, right? If you can get it so the ratio is in your favor, right? We would always shoot for live a three to one girl to guy ratio because every time you throw a party who shows up, guys show up. 


 22:23

Robbie Kramer
And women tend to not show up. We always aim for three to one. Sometimes we'd have a two to one or even three to one, but usually be closer to one. An interesting thing happens when you get that three to one ratio. Women start really competing for you. And women love to compete for guys. It doesn't happen very often because these ratios don't work out so often. Going back to your question, so what I told him to do was throw these weekly dinner parties and slowly have it ramp up. The way he would kind of find leads for these events is he'd go out and he would day game, his buddy would also go out and day game. Rather than take the girls on longer dates and try to go through that courtship process, he would just meet them for a 30 minutes coffee, get to know them and then invite them to a party coming up. 


 23:10

Robbie Kramer
Because they met in person, because obviously they met during the day game approach, they also met for that quick date. Now she's probably going to come to the party and she's going to bring a friend or maybe two friends because she doesn't want to go alone. And then she shows ups. There's this party, there's a lot of other beautiful women there cool guys and she's like wow, this guy. His status in her mind just went up another notch. What happens when that happens and he's not trying to pursue her, he's not trying to take her on more dates. She'll start pursuing him a lot of the time, especially when she sees that there's other women competing for his attention. Any guy can use the strategy, they can go out, they can day game instead of doing a traditional date, they can do a short little coffee, get to know you date, or walk in the park, have an ice cream, whatever, and then invite them to events and just host these events every week. 


 24:04

Robbie Kramer
So it's like a multiple dating situation. You got ten girls there who are all coming and they all like you and then they're competing for you. It's rocket fuel for your dating life. If you can pull this off. The more creative you can get about it, the better. Live, if you host theme parties, costume parties, if you have photographers show up and kind of have cool sorts of events and deals like that, you can really have fun with this fun party games at the events. The sky's the limit when it comes to throwing these events. You can start with dinner parties, but then you could invite a DJ over, turn it into a bigger house party, whatever your lifestyle, dreams and wishes are. 


 24:54

Josh Wilson
So, Robbie, I appreciate you sharing this. Now, what I got to figure out and as we're talking about this now, I hung up my hat long time ago. I'm married, and like I said, I'm trying to figure out how to pursue her veteran, but I also have two daughters. Right. From the perspective of women, you're married now, you said you hung up your hat and you're married. How does your wife feel about Chris Cook? Or looking at it as leads and conversions and KPIs and such, like team chat? Are your conversations look like with her? 


 25:30

Robbie Kramer
Good question. Yeah. Well, she absolutely loves it, and she works with all my clients. She helps them with their social media because having a good Instagram is a very big part of this, of course. Right. She helps with their fashion, their look. And we met through a similar sort. We met through my social circle. Right. She was a friend of a friend that came to a party. This exact strategy was how I met her. I've talked to other women about this, and I've told them about the sales process, the sales funnel, and I've never gotten any pushback on that because I'm not talking about live rounding the bases or any sexual thing. It's more just about yeah, we do that, too. We weed guys out. We have phone calls with them before we go on dates with them for online dating a lot of the time. 


 26:21

Robbie Kramer
Or I want to do a zoom call before a date, or I know on the first date, I'm not going to kiss them. Just a short little thing. Women are already doing this, whether they want to call it that or not. They are very scientific about their approach because they get so many leads and they have so much interest, they have to have a meeting out system. 


 26:42

Josh Wilson
They have a deal qualification process, and you have a lead generation process. Guys and girls have different ways of approaching the date. Right. What I really like about this is the approach is to build the relationship back in the day, take a note of the guys that I knew. I just don't hang out with them anymore because when you have kids, you just don't go out as much. They were out for the score, right. Bars and clubs, drink, buy drinks. They're going out. For the score. What I love about this is it's just like, hey, man, do you want a quick coffee date? Live get to know each other and maybe come back to the house for a party or whatever? It wasn't like, hey, let's see if I could go rack up more points. I like that approach, man, that's really cool. 


 27:29

Robbie Kramer
Thanks. Yeah, exactly. It really takes the pressure off both sides. Totally. Women love it because they're usually in an environment where there's way too many dudes. They show up to so many sausage parties, and they're always shocked. Live at first when I thought throwing these events and having such an escewed ratio, I thought the women wouldn't like it. The weird thing is, they actually love it and they say, this is so awesome. I met so many cool girlfriends. Because women don't have the same mindset. Live when guys go to a party, we're thinking, okay, what's the ratio here? What are my odds here? What are my chances? Women aren't always they're not as thirsty as most guys, of course. Right. If they need sex, they can go out and get it whenever they want, for the most part. They really enjoyed walking into a party sometimes. 


 28:15

Robbie Kramer
I had some parties during Covet before I was married. When all the nightclubs and stuff were closed, I was still hosting events and having people over. This is in Ukraine. We had an event where we had 22 girls and four guys there, and it was nuts. It was the best party I'd ever been to, of course, but even the girls were like, this is the coolest party ever. This is amazing because they're really bonding with each other. There's a sausage fest is bad, but too many girls, no problem. 


 28:46

Josh Wilson
How many languages do you speak, Robbie? 


 28:49

Robbie Kramer
I speak English, and I'm like a four or five year old level of Russian. I learned it in Ukraine. Unfortunately, I should have learned Ukrainian, given now that the situation with the world. Exactly. 


 29:00

Josh Wilson
Could you say something in Russia and be like, hey, welcome to Uncensored Advice for Men. Men's show. Or you can't do that, maybe, yeah. 


 29:07

Robbie Kramer
Previous uncensored advice for men podcast. Let's see. 


 29:16

Josh Wilson
Team chat was great. Thanks. What's that mean? 


 29:24

Robbie Kramer
Not throwbius like cheers. 


 29:28

Josh Wilson
That's breaking the rules. This is interesting, you're saying that women take the same approach, because the whole time I actually have some women in the audience who listen to one of my sister in law's shout out to her. I don't want to say names, but she might be embarrassed. Live, there's girls listening and I'm going, Man, I wonder how they would feel. You're saying they're doing the same d*** thing. They just use different terminology and they have different strategic outcomes. Both people are doing the same thing. If you want to air quote the game. 


 30:01

Robbie Kramer
Right, exactly. 


 30:03

Josh Wilson
Interesting. I never thought of it that way because I'm like, oh, my God, am I going to get a bunch of hate mail? Which I get it anyway, so I might as well just add to it. Everybody you mentioned sausage fest. 


 30:12

Robbie Kramer
Yeah. 


 30:12

Josh Wilson
Go back. 


 30:13

Robbie Kramer
Yeah. One more thing to that point. What happens when you take the different approach to dating and you're building your social circle and you're meeting women in that way, it really changes the dynamic. Instead of you chasing them and you chasing sex, it allows women to really choose. All right, I see this guy. He's got all these women around him. He's obviously partying a lot. He's throwing these events all the time. I understand that if I want to hook up with him, I'm the one who is going to have to initiate that. If you're looking to keep things casual and just like be a bachelor and have fun, it's the best way to do that because you're not going to be breaking hard, you're not going to be a player. For a while, I had this phase of my life where I'm not proud of it. 


 30:58

Robbie Kramer
I was totally a player. I was taking girls on dates, trying to sleep with them, and then I would sleep with them, and then I would kind of live, try to keep them on the hook and in this casual relationship for as long as I could. That would usually fizzle out around the three month mark. They would either want something more or sometimes they didn't. Of course. When you take a woman on a series of dates and you try to sleep with her, you're saying, live, I see a future with you. Right. If you're just inviting her to parties and you're having fun and you're parting and she sees you hooking up, or she sees it's pretty obvious, if a girl stays way later at your party than everyone else, odds are she wants to hook up. Right. If other girls seeing other girls doing that, they're making moves on you, which totally changes the dynamic. 


 31:43

Robbie Kramer
When they do, it's way like, you're not the guy who tricked them into sex. You're not the guy who pushed them at all. They made that decision. It allows you to have this lifestyle without having any drama or without being that player. Yeah. 


 31:59

Josh Wilson
Interesting. When it comes to you're married now, right? I remember back in the day when I was playing the game and I was trying my hardest, man, I really thought Team Chat would be fulfilling. And, like, I had these internal dialogues in my brain like, oh, that'd be nice. I wonder what the differences of all these things were. Right. I remember I had a successful week, but I remember driving home one night live, feeling really lonely. I had a lot of female interaction and I was having sex with multiple partners, but I felt lonely. Right. You are teaching guys about learning how to increase their dating game, their inner conference link, how do guys emotions, like loneliness, connection, how does that play into it? Because I know for me it was a big part of it. People would look at it and be like, how could you be lonely? 


 32:56

Josh Wilson
You have thousands of friends and obviously you're on a bunch of escapades, but I was the only inside man. How do you approach dude's emotions? We've got those. It's weird. 


 33:07

Robbie Kramer
Yeah, totally. You were lonely before you met your wife and just doing the meeting? ID felt the same way and I was in the same situation meeting with a lot of women. I was hosting Playboy parties, I was on yachts partying in villas and castles and I was lonely as h*** because I didn't have that real deep connection. I had a lot of awesome connections with friends and casual relationships with the women I was dating. Sometimes we had some really deep connections in those open situations. I was really looking for that partner after a while because I just got bored with the whole game and just with the it was fun having a lot of new or strange, as they say. After a while I was really looking for something more and I had to go through a lot of different women to find someone I really clicked with. 


 34:02

Robbie Kramer
They call it chemistry or whatever because we don't really know what's inside of that connection live. There's a lot of stuff when it comes to love that we don't understand the energy of it and what goes in, what makes that really live, that spark. I had a weird phase where I found myself falling in love with women who are totally unavailable, interesting, dated a New York stars and slept with some very interesting women that I got to attach to and realize that all right, they're just an avoidant personality type and they were not attaching to me. 


 34:42

Josh Wilson
The attachment styles and. 


 34:44

Robbie Kramer
Such like that, big time. 


 34:46

Josh Wilson
Tell me what the attachment styles are. 


 34:48

Robbie Kramer
So you have three attachment styles. You have secure, which is the one we want. This is a secure, healthy attachment. You have avoidant attachment where when you get close to someone you feel this desire to avoid and pull away and go away from love. A lot of the cluster B personality disorders like Narcissism and the stuff you'll read and live the psychology manuals, a lot of people with personality disorders are avoidant as well. You have anxious attachment styles and those are people who are insecurely attached, people who get overly attached. They tend to chase, they tend to get very nervous and anxious if their partner isn't giving them all the love that they feel like they need. A lot of the time, because they're anxiously attached, they never feel that they're getting enough love. What's unfortunate is avoidant and anxiously attached people attract each other like magnets, right? 


 35:46

Robbie Kramer
The avoidant person needs anxious person to chase them, and they need someone to run away from. I noticed that when I started this process, I was definitely anxiously attached. When I worked on that, I went to a few therapy sessions and I read a lot. There's a book called Attachment Theory which explains all this, but just kind of knowing it was a huge help. Just understanding Team Chat was my default, allowed me to become more of that secure attachment style, and allowed me to avoid women who were showing those red flags of avoidance right off the bat. I met a lot of those women in the party scene, like doing Playboy style shoots and working on the fringe with p*** stars. Like, you see that all the time because these women are very sexual. They're very good at presenting love. Like, a stripper would be a perfect example. 


 36:46

Robbie Kramer
Live she gets paid to make guys fall in love with her at the strip club and then they run. Exactly. If you're not careful as a guy and you fall victim to that energy, you're just entering a world of pain because you're going to just keep getting on that carousel of broken heart. 


 37:02

Josh Wilson
Interesting. All right, so Josh, you mentioned energy. Can you change your energies from anxious to secure? Or if you're avoidant, would you even know that you're avoiding attachment style, and that's not even on your radar. 


 37:18

Robbie Kramer
If you're avoidant, you'd probably know because you haven't had very many long, successful relationships. Live if all of your relationships end around a certain mark, especially if it's short. Live if you've never had a yearlong relationship and you're 35 years old, you're probably avoided, right? Or you're just not dating at all. Right. And the same goes for women. That's pretty obvious, I think, for most people. You'll usually kind of see this . I mean, this is mostly for intimate relationships, but if you tend to just go away and avoid people in general, you're likely to avoid it. For anxious, you can certainly change that. You change it by really putting awareness on it and stopping those behaviors because they're all just like built in program behaviors and we develop them as kids, right? It's not like this is built into our personality. This is just a way of operating that we think is love. 


 38:20

Robbie Kramer
You're anxiously attached and you find someone who is avoidant and they start avoiding you feel like you're in love. It's probably because you had a parent that was treating you like that. Most of the time, it goes back to that thing. 


 38:34

Josh Wilson
Yeah. 


 38:34

Robbie Kramer
What I did was the first thing which I kind of mentioned before was I became Live, a super strict on mirroring women's vibe and energy. The easiest way to do this is with text and electronic communication. I would be a N*** about not double texting, not triple texting. If I asked them on a date and they responded like, oh, I'm busy. They didn't ask to reschedule, I would just not follow up with them and instead, hopefully they would watch my Instagram stories and I would try to keep the interaction going through that passive means. Just noticing where I was over investing and not mirroring their behavior really started to change that for me. 


 39:23

Josh Wilson
Yeah. You believe that through awareness and through if you find yourself being anxious, what are some signs you might be anxious attachment style person? 


 39:36

Robbie Kramer
If you're really worried about Live, well, that's a good question because it's really different with every partner. With some partners you might find that you're securely attached because you guys might have the same love language or you might express your desires or your needs for love in the same way. I had a girlfriend one time who she just wasn't very physical and I'm a big physical touch person. I need a lot of physical touch and that's what feels Live love to me. And she just wasn't a physical person. We had sex and that was all fine, but just lying around live she didn't like to cuddle, she didn't like to kind of hold hands when were out and she just wouldn't touch me really at all. When I touched her, a lot of the time it felt like she didn't want to be touched and that relationship just did not work for me. 


 40:28

Robbie Kramer
It didn't matter. We talked about it, we tried things and it just did not work for me because I constantly felt like a lack of love and me trying to show my love in the normal way, she didn't like that at all. I feel like with some people, if you just don't have that same way of showing affection, it can be really tough. Live I also dated a girl who was just obsessed with gifts. That was her only way of feeling love was getting gifts. I am not a very good gift giver, so that wasn't a very good fit. There's these little intricacies that you can work out and if you read about the five Love languages, that's pretty basic stuff and you can kind of figure out what your main two languages are and figure out what your partners are and these are things to look for at the beginning of in the dating process when you're sleeping with someone and do we kind of click. 


 41:22

Robbie Kramer
What I found what happened with my wife was live. That all just was easy because we just kind of had the same label languages. We clicked in a great way. We just felt that instant, live, amazing attraction where were both felt lucky to have each other, which was what I kind of think is live. Maybe live. The magic ingredient is both. People have to feel like they're getting lucky, but not like the other person's more lucky than them. Right. With so many girls, I always felt like, oh, she's a little below my league, or she's a little above my league. And that would lead to problems. 


 42:03

Josh Wilson
When you and your wife, your past is very evident, right. Like, on your intake form, you had a website go to the website and you're like, oh, wow, there's a lot of women on your website. Right. Your past is very open, and you dated p*** stars and you dated a lot of beautiful people. Right. What about her past? Like, if you guys are discussing past, how do you guys approach that? Because in marriage, you're 40 now, and you're bringing a past into a relationship. How do you guys communicate about that? Or let's not talk about it. 


 42:38

Robbie Kramer
No, she's 23, so we've got a pretty big age gap. Yeah, there it is. Which is more normal in Ukraine, definitely. Here in the US, people are like, well, that's a big age difference. Over in Eastern Europe, it's not as taboo. The women kind of grow up and mature much faster there. 


 43:02

Josh Wilson
Yeah, they're much smarter and more mature than us in their twenty s. It takes an extra 20 years to get our crap together. 


 43:09

Robbie Kramer
Yeah, exactly. I'm a 40 year old with live, a 33 year old mentality. She's a 23 year old with at least a 30 year old mentality. That's a good this. Exactly. She's a model. She's influencer on TikTok and instagram. For me, once I was live, the biggest, s*** man w**** ever. I'm not the type of guy to judge anyone. She doesn't have a crazy past like I did, but she accepts me for that. And she actually live. If you read romance novels, every romance novel is basically the same thing. There's this guy, he's broken, but if I can fix them, he'll be the perfect guy. It doesn't matter that he's slept with every woman. 50 shades of gray. It's all the same. Women are looking for players that they can reform into good guys. Right. Or they're looking for that project. In most romance novels, there's not a lot of women looking for the virgin who they want to make experienced. 


 44:13

Robbie Kramer
Right. So from that standpoint, older women do. 


 44:17

Josh Wilson
They're like, all right, I performed a guy, now I'm going back to the 50 year old woman going after the 19 year old boy. Right, exactly. 


 44:24

Robbie Kramer
The cougars, right? Yeah. For us, that was never like, she knew my past, she came to my parties and she saw that the type of guy I was, and I thought even for a while I was live. Maybe I'm turning my potential wife off before she was like, maybe I'm turning my potential wife candidates off by being such a Manhor. But it didn't matter. They all were like, it's just a guy being a guy. You ever heard that? Who was it? The stand up comic. He talks about the difference between s**** and studs. Jim. Jeffries s**** versus Studs. He's like, it's really easy to be a s***. You can be a slutty dwarf, but it's really hard to be a stud. Right? It takes something to be a stud. You got to have live a fake job, be a good talker. It's like this whole stand up bit. 


 45:15

Robbie Kramer
Women respect a guy who can get a lot of women, but guys don't respect a woman who can get a lot of men because it doesn't really take anything. There is that double standard, but I think it's a fair double standard in a sense. Okay, that makes sense. 


 45:29

Josh Wilson
I don't know, because for me, I just have no clue about how a female operates. I have a lot of women in my life, family and stuff like that. I would say every time I start to figure it out, I totally get lost in it. 


 45:48

Robbie Kramer
One more thing about that. I was not judgmental at all. It didn't matter to me that, like I said, I dated a few p*** stars, and I really liked them. I would have potentially married them if I was feeling that love back, but they were always too avoided because they had all sorts of issues around sexuality, being in that line of work, but I totally fell in love with a few different of them. I could name some names if you want. Pretty common people. 


 46:19

Josh Wilson
I'm sure the guys in the audience so let's do this. I'm sure there's guys in the audience who want to know all the stories, but we'll have them reach out to you and maybe buy your books or become clients and such like that. Let's talk about the work you do right now, right? You found that you had to increase your own inner confidence. You had to increase the way you met people and built your social circles. You had to increase the way you show up in the dating world. You got to a point where you're pretty d*** good at it. Then you started to teach it, right? You started to help other dudes who did not have all that hard work, right? You're helping guys accelerate their ability to connect with other humans. Now that you're married, what does that look like? What does the Robbie 2.0 or 4.0 because you're 40 or whatever, what does that look like in the way you're showing up to help guys? 


 47:18

Josh Wilson
This dating game, what's that look like? 


 47:21

Robbie Kramer
Yeah. The way I learned this stuff was through guys that were better than me. Right. I had wingmen who are better than me. I went to events and I took workshops and seminars, and I was involved in mastermind communities. 


 47:34

Josh Wilson
A mastermind pickup group. 


 47:35

Robbie Kramer
Yeah, exactly. I have a group. It's called the Leverage Group, and it's 50 guys. We're in discord, and we're chatting in there all day, every day. We do zoom calls every week. We also have this I talked about these measuring KPIs and statistics. We actually have an app that tracks people's approaches and tracks all of the interactions they're having. We're all entering our data of what we're doing, and we're comparing it to what the other guys are doing. So it's very motivating. If you're in there, you're not taking any location, you're not approaching women, or you're not building your dating funnel. You can turn on the approach tracking live. Oh, wow, this other guy has done a lot more than I have, and I'm slacking. You're getting that push to do more. And we're all discussing this stuff together. It's an open forum of guys discussing their biggest insecurities and talking about their dating life, which most guys don't have access to that level of communication. 


 48:39

Robbie Kramer
We're also telling each other why we suck and helping each other giving that like, brotherly advice that you're not going to get just from normal people. Because people are polite, right. You're not going to find out, like, bro, your teeth are yellow. You need to work on that. No one's going to say that to you, but we'll say it to you. 


 48:58

Josh Wilson
Well, I think that honest feedback is good. If they're going to their buddies trying to get this advice, their buddies are going after the same thing. So that's your, I guess, competition. Are they truly going to be out looking for your best interest in helping you improve yourself? Are they? Who knows, right? 


 49:17

Robbie Kramer
It would be a weird conversation to have with a buddy. If I play golf with a buddy and that's like our thing, and we're closer, we're homies, I'm probably not going to feel that comfortable telling him he needs to whiten his teeth. Right. Because we're not live doing the self improvement thing together necessarily. We're just friends. Right? 


 49:36

Josh Wilson
You need to brush your teeth. You need to learn to dance. Like in the movie Hitch, keep that dance right in here. Is that your favorite movie? 


 49:42

Robbie Kramer
Hitch is great. I'm so glad it came out because I can just tell people when they say, what do you do? I'm basically hitch. Just makes my life easier. 


 49:51

Josh Wilson
Yeah. Before that, nobody actually knew that this was a profession. Yeah, let's do this. In that group of 50 dudes, if we had to look at the kind of the guys they are with, the majority of them fall more live as they're getting started, as the anxious, the secure, the avoidance? Or do you not even accept avoidance? What does that look like? 


 50:14

Robbie Kramer
No. Most guys are going to be usually anxious. We get some avoidant guys, but most guys who are avoidant, they're already good at the getting sex part. That's built in for them. Right. They're not really seeking out this advice very often, right? 


 50:35

Josh Wilson
Yeah. 


 50:39

Robbie Kramer
Most guys come in, they're the same as me. They have live the nice guy syndrome that they need to get over. They're afraid to really express their attraction to the women that they really like. They're afraid to make the move. They're not really sure when to go for it. They're timid and they're hesitant. And they know they're like dating. They're meeting, they're dating down because everyone tells them, live, well, you're such a good guy, you're so awesome. They're just not getting the dates with the women that they really could because they're not doing anything. They're not trying, they're not putting themselves out there enough. It's a lot of live recovering nice guys and it tends to be a ton of tech guys. Computer programmers, engineers, entrepreneurs, especially with the we're all in front of our computer screen a lot these days and not having a lot of social interactions and COVID only made this worse over the last few years. 


 51:31

Robbie Kramer
Helping guys build those social funnels and get out there and actually do some day game and start approaching women and just get off the computer and off the online dating apps. Just having that support system alone for most of the guys are like, this is so much better than what I was doing before because I feel like I've got a community behind me. I'm doing things that actually get me out of the house and I feel alive. Live when you do an approach, if you haven't done one before or you haven't done one in a long time, it's a very visceral experience. It's like getting on a roller coaster. In the beginning, if you're a little kid, you're scared to get on a roller coaster, it's going to feel like terribly. You're going to feel a ton of anxiety and fear. Once you get on, you do it a few times, that transforms into excitement and you start to feel like, wow, this is fun. 


 52:19

Robbie Kramer
Rejection isn't that bad. Every guy I feel like most guys who are good with women, at some point they got over their fear of rejection. They did happen at a young age, in 7th or 8th grade. They asked a girl out, she said yes. They never really had to deal with rejection because maybe they were good looking or they just had a string of wins. If you were like me, the first girl I asked out in Event name said no. She wanted to be friends. I didn't ask another girl out for live five years until the end of high school. I was just always scared to make the move or scared to go for it. Getting into this community and having guys push me to take those risks was the biggest transformation from that anxious guy to a more secure, competent dude. 


 53:03

Josh Wilson
Yeah, man. So it's very interesting work. Like I said, it's kind of foreign to me, but it's super cool what you're doing. I'm glad that you're sharing this with this community because what you're doing is interesting and it's helping guys. Let's do this for some dudes in the audience who may need some help in their dating life and maybe meeting someone and learning how to build those relationships. Because I believe cobid the last couple of years have really reset guys back socially and even relationships and people and stuff like that. What's a good place for guys to connect with you and maybe get some help? 


 53:45

Robbie Kramer
Sure. What I'd recommend, if you go over to my site, it's innerconfidence. Cominfidence.com. 


 53:53

Josh Wilson
Great domain, by the way. That's a good this. 


 53:55

Robbie Kramer
Thanks. Bet I got lucky. I picked that thing up in Live 2007. Held onto it for sure. There's a quiz right on the front of the site. It says, take this quiz to get tailored advice on where you're at. The quiz will kind of show you where your biggest sticking points are, what you need the most help on. Some guys it's texting. Some guys it's the approaching stuff. Some guys it's more of the interconfidence things. If you take that quiz, I'll send you live a detailed breakdown of what you need to do to improve. 


 54:27

Josh Wilson
Now, you mentioned texting. Two more questions before we roll. 


 54:34

Robbie Kramer
Do d*** pics work if you're already banging her, yes. If you're not, no. 


 54:41

Josh Wilson
Okay. I don't know. I've never done it, so I've never been live. Sitting there one day be like, what? This girl really wants to see my joke. I never even crossed my mind. You mentioned that earlier I was live. I wonder if that even works. Okay, cool. And then last question. There's probably a bunch of questions live during this interview that I should have asked. What's the most asked question? When a guy raises his hand and comes to you, what's that one thing that they're going, hey, I'm embarrassed about talking about this. Blah. What's usually the first question they ask? 


 55:12

Robbie Kramer
That's a good question, actually. I don't know. Some guys I guess one thing that's been coming up a lot recently is some guys will have sexual performance anxiety, either ed or they come too fast, these things. And what will happen with that? Ian Hill actually kind of sabotage the whole process because they'll be live. I have this problem they're so anxious. 


 55:42

Josh Wilson
About that aspect exactly. 


 55:45

Robbie Kramer
That they. Don't even want to go on dates because they're like, well, if I go on a date and then she likes me and we're making out, we're back in my bedroom, and my stuff doesn't work. What's worse than that, right? It's live such a painful experience that they don't even want to do that process. A lot of times, these are really, like, cool guys that should be dating. They have women that are interested in them, but they only kind of know that traditional dating model in their head, and they don't feel confident that they can just actually slow the interaction down themselves. They're like, when a woman wants me, I feel like I have to perform, and I have to be ready, and I have to give her the D. What I tell them is, this is the exact reason why you would want to build more of live the social circle funnel. 


 56:26

Robbie Kramer
There's nothing wrong with being the one to take it slow and to say, hey, listen, can we slow this down? My little friend down there doesn't like strangers. I really need more of a connection. That's a funny line that one of my clients recently said. He's like, he doesn't like strangers, and you're not a stranger. I feel like we took this . A lot of the time, it's just guys are afraid to talk about this stuff. They don't have anyone to talk about it with. Just having those conversations in the group can be super valuable, and there's a lot of different strategies that can work for that. 


 57:03

Josh Wilson
Guys could come in the group and talk about their junk with you, which I think is super helpful. Super helpful, super healthy when you could talk with other dudes about it. Because I'll tell you, the way I grew up, I knew my dad loved me, but his talk to me about sex was like, all right, what a p**** looks like? This is what a v***** looks like. Go get them, tiger. 


 57:24

Robbie Kramer
Right. Just wear a condom. 


 57:30

Josh Wilson
I didn't learn about sex in a healthy way. I didn't learn about relationships in a healthy way. I believe that's why one of the purpose of the shows is to talk about these things, so one day, my son can maybe if he's brave enough, one day listen to old dad talk about this crap. But I like what you're doing, man. That's super cool, and it's super healthy that I think, guys San Jose to you and talk about their junk with one more time. Absolutely. Robbie, it was good having you on, man. We've been trying to make this thing work for Live. Six months travel. 


 57:58

Robbie Kramer
I know, man. 


 57:59

Josh Wilson
All around the world. 


 58:00

Robbie Kramer
Crazy. 


 58:01

Josh Wilson
We made it. We did it. 


 58:03

Robbie Kramer
By the way, your questions have been amazing. This has been one of my favorite interviews ever. 


 58:07

Josh Wilson
Yeah. 


 58:07

Robbie Kramer
Thanks. 


 58:09

Josh Wilson
You're now an eight and a half out of a ten. 


 58:14

Robbie Kramer
Awesome. See that? The connection raises the points again. 


 58:17

Josh Wilson
That's right. I love compliment words of affirmation. That's my love language. Don't touch me. 


 58:24

Robbie Kramer
Bear it out, Robbie. 


 58:25

Josh Wilson
One more time. Work a dudes connect with you. 


 58:28

Robbie Kramer
Yeah, just run on over to Innerconfidence.com, and, yeah, you can hit me up on Instagram as well. I love to hear from guys who have listened to my stuff. Or I have a podcast also. It's called the Leverage Podcast. So, yeah, check that out, guys. 


 58:41

Josh Wilson
Awesome, dude. Love you. I'm so glad Robbie came on and shared some stuff. Listen, if you're struggling and you need a guy to kind of live guide you and give you some advice on how to maybe go on a date or how to have a conversation with a female, head on over to Interconfidence.com. Have a quick chat with Robbie. Say, I heard you on the show. Beware there are b**** on that website, at least the old one. So just giving you guys a heads. 


 59:06

Robbie Kramer
Up and put a censored thing on there. 


 59:08

Josh Wilson
Okay, cool. I did that. I was like, whoa. Okay, cool. All right. So with that guy, I love you. If you have some advice that you'd like to share with guys and share your story and some of the things that you coach guys work with guys head. Shaahin Shaahin. Shaahin Shaahin. Cheyene uncensored advice for men. A quick form. This show is for helping guys, so if you have a heart for that, come on the show. Maybe get you to share your story. Till then, we'll talk to you all on the next episode. Bye, everybody. 

Robbie Kramer Profile Photo

Robbie Kramer

Dating & Confidence Coach

Robbie Kramer has been guiding
men to accomplish their goals
with women, health, fitness, and
career since 2009.

He founded Inner Confidence to
show men exactly how to create
the lifestyle of their dreams in a
way that actually works.

No quick fixes.
No magic pills.
No bullshit.

Just tested, proven and
easily implementable
advice that works.

“Robbie brings dignity and ease to
traditionally taboo interactions. No funny
names, no pickup routines, no fake
stories tricking women into liking you,
just 100% real attraction, emotional
connection and strengthening your inner
confidence. This is the necessary
evolution of so-called pickup arts into
something more meaningful and
organic.”